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re: Klinsmann's next task as USA coach.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 6:50 pm to Tiger Phil
Posted on 7/3/14 at 6:50 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
I think high school soccer is fantastic. Full disclosure: I'm a high school soccer coach in Texas. However, it cannot be the main focus for developing soccer talent in this country.
Agree with both of these statements. High School soccer is a venue through which I've seen many kids fall in love with the sport. It is even now slowly but surely building a grass roots base of support that will stand the sport in good stead in the future.
quote:Amen to that. The cooperation seems to come in fits and starts depending on the motives of the different entities at any given time. Although having said that I think the club system as it exists just may not be conducive to the overall countrywide good of the sport.
There needs to more of an understanding between club soccer and high school soccer, but that is a topic for a different conversation
quote:
If we are waiting until high school to start working with kids technically, they are far, far behind. Sure some may develop into decent players, but these are players that will never even become impact players on the high school level.
This may well be the best place to discuss it. I think your first sentence is the most important one. High School age is just too late. And some really do develop into good players. But admittedly kids who are only training and playing 4 or 5 months a year will not be on the same level as kids that are training and playing 12 months.
quote:
Look, we don't have enough good coaches to go around all the clubs that exist, much less placing one in each high school! Ha!
Here in La the coaches tend to be the same ones. They just use the clubs to supplement their coach/teacher income.
0
Posted on 7/3/14 at 6:55 pm to BamaChick
quote:
Our club has joined with other regional clubs to petition for a rule change for soccer and the AHSAA has turned us down 6 years in a row.
Shame, I can see where they are coming from in that once its allowed for soccer, why not allow it for basketball etc and opens up a big can of worms. But like you say thats what will stop players getting to the next level
Posted on 7/3/14 at 7:24 pm to BamaChick
quote:
Where development in Alabama falls apart is when they get to middle school. Most kids - at least in mid-size to small towns - can't wait to play for their school team. The AHSAA has a rule that if you are playing for your school in any sport, you can not play for an outside team in the same sport. It's a rule to keep schools from getting around the practice limit rules by having their whole soccer, baseball, basketball etc. team using a rec team or travel team to augment the school team.
It falls apart here at that age too. But mostly because there are not many venues in the rural and small town areas for that age. There is no real Middle School or Jr. High programs to speak of to my knowledge.
But its the same here where the kids love to play for their school. Especially in rural/small town areas - Lutcher, St. Amant, Destrehan, etc. And of course the big power house Catholic school like Jesuit and St. Louis.
The restrictions in Louisiana are not quite as stringent as it sounds in Alabama. The basic rule is that no high school coach can coach more than 6 of the players from his own school at an outside team during the school year. So what usually happens is the top club teams are made up of the top kids from a number of schools. For example, some from Jesuit, some from Brother Martin, Some even from St Pauls across the lake, etc. That allows the high school kids who want to and can afford to do so to play fall and spring in club and winter in high school. Also, the LHSAA allows the high school teams to play short sided games (ie: 7 on 7 or indoor 6 on 6) during the summer as teams. Maybe ya'll could sell something like that to the AHSAA.
But I can't help but feel that the passion for the game and playing for their schools (like you say they can't wait to play for their schools) has to be something that can be tapped into in some way shape or form.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 8:06 pm to Methuselah
I really wish soccer existed in Lutcher when I was growing up. But it was really nowhere to be found. No rec teams and no middle school or high school soccer at all. Damn shame.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 8:33 pm to lsugradman
quote:
I really wish soccer existed in Lutcher when I was growing up. But it was really nowhere to be found. No rec teams and no middle school or high school soccer at all. Damn shame.
It's thriving here now. The rec program has been going strong for awhile now. Younger age groups have enough team to play in house. Older ages used to play against 7th and 8th grade catholic school teams from St. John and St. Charles (not sure if they still do that). High school program is 4 years old and has improved every year. Last year made the playoffs and this year won a playoff game.
Even the new turf field has the soccer lines permanently built in.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 11:29 pm to crazy4lsu
I don't know why we have to change altogether. We do fine with our processes in basketball and baseball and Olympic sports vs the rest of the world.
I don't believe that we have to get the best players to some designated academy to be successful. Just keep adding resources to the game at the youth level, keep growing MLS and find a way to promote American players on TV. We will be fine. Doing it the our way will work also. We'll never be able to do it the way Europe does it anyway. We won't ever have neighborhood teams. We won't settle for a system where only the haves actually have a shot to win.
I don't believe that we have to get the best players to some designated academy to be successful. Just keep adding resources to the game at the youth level, keep growing MLS and find a way to promote American players on TV. We will be fine. Doing it the our way will work also. We'll never be able to do it the way Europe does it anyway. We won't ever have neighborhood teams. We won't settle for a system where only the haves actually have a shot to win.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 6:51 am to Mahootney
quote:wut?
One major issue is that Soccer is not played consistently in Middle or High School across the country.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 7:57 am to BamaChick
quote:I'm calling BS unless that's a recent rule. When I was playing, up til 2006, we could play on both club teams and high school. The rule was just that you couldn't have more than 6 players from one high school on the same club team.
The AHSAA has a rule that if you are playing for your school in any sport, you can not play for an outside team in the same sport.
This post was edited on 7/4/14 at 7:58 am
Posted on 7/4/14 at 8:22 am to Dalosaqy
I'd wager that more middle schools and high schools have soccer teams than football teams these days. A lot of schools are just too small to field football teams but soccer is no problem.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:15 am to Xenophon
quote:
I don't know why we have to change altogether. We do fine with our processes in basketball and baseball and Olympic sports vs the rest of the world.
Uh...America cares about baseball and basketball as much or more than anyone. Only 10-20 countries around the world take those sports really seriously. The best league for both is also in America because we are the inventors of them. Soccer is a totally different animal.
quote:
I don't believe that we have to get the best players to some designated academy to be successful
So...you think if our players aren't training and honing their skills as diligently their foreign counterparts they will still be able to compete? Especially in a sport like soccer with the required technical and tactical acumen, if your opponent has worked longer and harder on his game then likely you'll lose.
quote:
We won't settle for a system where only the haves actually have a shot to win.
That's the current pay to play club system. The desired model is a club-owned academy system (mostly) where players are not responsible for costs. That's the Euro system.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 12:10 pm to Tennessee Jed
quote:
Imagine if an entrepreneur in a city like Nashville, New Orleans, Minneapolis, Charlotte, Austin, etc. decides to build an academy with the hopes of promoting a homegrown squad to the MLS. These are cities with an immense amount of local talent, that as of right now, has very little chance of being recognized and developed.
St. Louis used this model in trying to lure an MLS team. One of the stumbling blocks was that while the entrepreneur had money, it wasn't big enough money. But that model is what was floated. The MLS team would essentially absorb the biggest local club/academy and it would actually become part of the MLS team's structure. That fell through and the club pursued a partnership of sorts with Arsenal. The club still exists and all the regular kids can still pay and play, but they take the elite of the elite locally and they go through the Arsenal program, training more than playing games.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 1:17 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
I'm calling BS unless that's a recent rule. When I was playing, up til 2006, we could play on both club teams and high school. The rule was just that you couldn't have more than 6 players from one high school on the same club team.
In louisiana, you can't play club and high school at the same time. Meaning that if club season ends in November 10th, you can't play high school ball until november 11th. We also have the same players rule except it's 5 from one high school cant play on the same club team
Edit: We actually had a problem with that my senior year. We had 6 players on BRSC 93s, so two of them quit club (also allowed them to focus more on CC)
This post was edited on 7/4/14 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 7/4/14 at 1:43 pm to bluebarracuda
quote:
The rule was just that you couldn't have more than 6 players from one high school on the same club team.
In louisiana, you can't play club and high school at the same time. Meaning that if club season ends in November 10th, you can't play high school ball until november 11th. We also have the same players rule except it's 5 from one high school cant play on the same club team
Oh man, can we just kill these archaic rules? Let the kids play! Club soccer is not going away, high school associations!!!
PS, there is no high school rule in Texas against club. The only rule is that a high school coach cannot coach players in club that would go to his high school from the 7th grade on.
What are clubs that are in a town with one big high school supposed to do?
Posted on 7/4/14 at 1:50 pm to pvilleguru
It's true check pages 10-11 of the AHSAA Eligibility PDF HERE.
The 6 player rule only applies to the off-season.
It really hurts the more developed clubs and players that have played together for years and play and train year round.
quote:
– A student may not participate on a non-school team or in
an outside sport activity (including camps, tryouts,
showcases, etc.) in his/her sport during the school sport
season, with the following exceptions:
--Students in track, cross country or wrestling may participate as an independent only in two outside activities with no loss of school time during the season in that sport.
--A student in soccer who participates in an Olympic Development Program may take part in one evaluation per month during the school soccer season.
--Students in tennis, golf and swimming are exempt from this rule but must compete only as an independent, not part of a non-school team.
-Private individual instruction is not considered an
outside sports activity. Private individual instruction is
one-on-one instruction between one athlete and one
instructor and cannot be instruction with another
player or groups of players.
– A team’s school sports season begins the day of the
first contest and ends when the team’s season has
been completed.
The 6 player rule only applies to the off-season.
quote:
Fifty Percent Rule- Participation (includes practice) during the school year by students from any high school team (varsity and junior varsity/B-team) on a non-school team during the off-season is limited to 50 percent of the number of players required to play the game of that sport (i.e., three in basketball, six in soccer, five in baseball, etc.) A freshman team is considered a junior high team.
It really hurts the more developed clubs and players that have played together for years and play and train year round.
This post was edited on 7/4/14 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 7/4/14 at 2:08 pm to Tiger Phil
Yea, in Texas it's actually encouraged for kids to play as much as possible.
I coach my sons indoor team which is made up almost exclusively of incoming freshman to the HS. Both the HS coach and all of their club coaches come to games and support them.
I coach my sons indoor team which is made up almost exclusively of incoming freshman to the HS. Both the HS coach and all of their club coaches come to games and support them.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 2:50 pm to BamaChick
quote:
A student may not participate on a non-school team or in
an outside sport activity (including camps, tryouts,
showcases, etc.) in his/her sport during the school sport
season, with the following exceptions:
Okay...I'm confused about why this is a problem. If they're playing for the school, they won't be playing club during high school soccer season. They'll play in the high school offseason, just like I and others in TN do.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 3:06 pm to DoreonthePlains
They can't train, practice, or attend any club team activities during the season.
Most of the good club teams play year round and if you want to play for your school, you can't have anything to do with your club from December to April/May (depending on if your team makes the playoffs).
That's almost half the year away from the club. Someone else will step in in their absence and take their place.
Most of the good club teams play year round and if you want to play for your school, you can't have anything to do with your club from December to April/May (depending on if your team makes the playoffs).
That's almost half the year away from the club. Someone else will step in in their absence and take their place.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 3:16 pm to BamaChick
Guess I never got to a high enough level, or TN clubs just have adapted. Club tryouts are first of May then train until first of August. Play all fall then in January high school starts back for real.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 4:00 pm to DoreonthePlains
In LA, it wasn't a problem unless a club team wanted to go to a high profile tournament like NOMADS. Then, club players just missed a couple of insignificant weeks. Of course, I'm sure club teams could have scheduled other tournaments provided that that rule wasn't in place.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 4:26 pm to joey barton
What percentage of jr. and hs. Coaches have coaching licenses? I know quite a few people who quit playing at this stage because their coach was a football or baseball coach primarily. How many coaches on this board have them? I have an E, and it was an eye-opener. It was based on Jurgen's plan for development,which was kinda cool.
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