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Started By
Message
re: It's 12:11 pm central on March 28th and somehow Jurgen is still USMNT coach
Posted on 3/26/16 at 4:54 pm to Cocotheape
Posted on 3/26/16 at 4:54 pm to Cocotheape
The U.S. isn't Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Italy, Spain, or France.
It isn't England, Portugal, Uruguay, Holland, Chile, Belgium, or Colombia.
It's not even Ukraine, Switzerland, Algeria, or even Mexico at this point.
The talent gap between the U.S. and their European-South American counterpart is so much larger than you think it is. All these nations have players scattered all throughout Europe's top leagues, playing in CL or Europa league on a consistent basis.
The U.S. has a few players playing for smaller Buli clubs, or in 2. bundesliga, a few playing in England (where only Geoff Cameron is a regular for a team not destined for the Championship), and the odd player playing for a small club in France or the Netherlands. Apart from that, the majority of the national setup play in a league who's quality is comparable to the Championship (probably not even that), Serie B, 2. Bundesliga, etc.
It isn't England, Portugal, Uruguay, Holland, Chile, Belgium, or Colombia.
It's not even Ukraine, Switzerland, Algeria, or even Mexico at this point.
The talent gap between the U.S. and their European-South American counterpart is so much larger than you think it is. All these nations have players scattered all throughout Europe's top leagues, playing in CL or Europa league on a consistent basis.
The U.S. has a few players playing for smaller Buli clubs, or in 2. bundesliga, a few playing in England (where only Geoff Cameron is a regular for a team not destined for the Championship), and the odd player playing for a small club in France or the Netherlands. Apart from that, the majority of the national setup play in a league who's quality is comparable to the Championship (probably not even that), Serie B, 2. Bundesliga, etc.
1
Posted on 3/26/16 at 4:56 pm to Piscinin
It's not a money thing. I never even mentioned money.
More of our best prospects are playing at European academies and reserve teams. More and more young athletes are focusing on soccer from an early age, as it is continuing to grow in popularity. MLS isn't great quality, but it's getting better and becoming more relevant despite its self-inflicted issues.
Those are positive trends that will only continue to get better as the sport has more success. It doesn't necessarily have to be the biggest sport in the country for it to be great down the road.
The U.S. is just decades and decades behind the rest of the major powers. Just because it's not that way right now doesn't mean it will never happen.
ETA:
That's what's happening *right now*. Americans have just now been in major European leagues inside the last couple of decades. And the numbers are growing. You post like the way it is right now is the way it always will be.
More of our best prospects are playing at European academies and reserve teams. More and more young athletes are focusing on soccer from an early age, as it is continuing to grow in popularity. MLS isn't great quality, but it's getting better and becoming more relevant despite its self-inflicted issues.
Those are positive trends that will only continue to get better as the sport has more success. It doesn't necessarily have to be the biggest sport in the country for it to be great down the road.
The U.S. is just decades and decades behind the rest of the major powers. Just because it's not that way right now doesn't mean it will never happen.
ETA:
quote:
The talent gap between the U.S. and their European-South American counterpart is so much larger than you think it is. All these nations have players scattered all throughout Europe's top leagues, playing in CL or Europa league on a consistent basis.
That's what's happening *right now*. Americans have just now been in major European leagues inside the last couple of decades. And the numbers are growing. You post like the way it is right now is the way it always will be.
This post was edited on 3/26/16 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 3/26/16 at 4:57 pm to Piscinin
quote:
Piscinin
bringing the heat
but lets not have this debate in this thread
this thread is about Klins
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:03 pm to Piscinin
quote:
Being an athletics obsessed country, or a hugely populated country, has nothing to do with how well a nation will do in football.
somebody didn't read soccernomics
quote:
you can't just throw money at the sport and expect progress to magically appear.
why not?
quote:
Could you tell me what changes have been made that make you think that progress is actually being made?
a professional league that is starting to use academies to develop players in professional settings from a young age
that is like 4-5 years old, so it's a huge change that doesn't have much history as of today
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
a professional league that is starting to use academies to develop players in professional settings from a young age
that is like 4-5 years old, so it's a huge change that doesn't have much history as of today
that depends on the quality of coaching
id rather those kids still go abroad, but they can't until they are 18 unless they have an EU direct relative then they can go anywhere in Europe at 16. If they want to go before that its only that EU country they have ties to.
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:06 pm to WarSlamEagle
the U.S. are trying to play catch up with the lesser powers of South America and Europe, all while these nations are also constantly improving their youth infrastructure and domestic leagues. Hard to understand if you've never lived in Europe, but the gap is just too large in so many different areas to really think that it will ever be closed.
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:10 pm to Piscinin
quote:
Hard to understand if you've never lived in Europe, but the gap is just too large in so many different areas to really think that it will ever be closed.
I was waiting for this.
Even having this discussion is pointless, then. I'm out. My inferior American viewpoint can't hang.
This post was edited on 3/26/16 at 5:11 pm
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:12 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
that depends on the quality of coaching
no.
you're not answering his question. you're answering a different question
quote:
id rather those kids still go abroad, but they can't until they are 18
exactly. most of the top guys are going to europe at a young age, but in the youth development level they have to be identified and developed here. regardless, what we were doing now is very new and very different than how we've approached it in the past
that's what he asked. that is one answer (likely the biggest)
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:15 pm to Piscinin
quote:
the U.S. are trying to play catch up with the lesser powers of South America and Europe, all while these nations are also constantly improving their youth infrastructure and domestic leagues
and you dismiss the power of money
our money advantage with our sheer population (and genetic) advantage is going to give us the time to develop faster than any nation
when the US sets its sights on a major sport, nobody can compete with us. we just haven't fully foucsed on soccer. it grows every year, though, and we've made incredible strides the past 20 years.
quote:
but the gap is just too large in so many different areas to really think that it will ever be closed.
why?
that's insanity
we have more money, more sports passion, and more athleticism than any other nation. it will just take time to develop
we've only given half a frick about soccer for 20 years and really have only invested in it for about 10-15
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
when the US sets its sights on a major sport, nobody can compete with us. we just haven't fully foucsed on soccer. it grows every year, though, and we've made incredible strides the past 20 years.
the sports we dominate are the ones we invented
quote:
we have more money
yes
quote:
more sports passion
no chance, just got to a soccer match abroad and it trumps any american sports experience
quote:
and more athleticism than any other nation. it will just take time to develop
We are just as athletic or more than every one we face. The athletes argument is played out. Its about correctly developing the athletes we have to think like soccer players from an early age.
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:30 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
the sports we dominate are the ones we invented
we're not at/near the top every olympics because we invented all those sports
quote:
no chance, just got to a soccer match abroad and it trumps any american sports experience
what we spend on sports is unrivaled
what idiots in the stands do is irrelevant to showing the value placed on sports. a better variable is investment
and we invest a shite ton in our sports
This post was edited on 3/26/16 at 5:30 pm
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:31 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we're not at/near the top every olympics because we invented all those sports
sports people care about
quote:
what we spend on sports is unrivaled
what idiots in the stands do is irrelevant to showing the value placed on sports. a better variable is investment
and we invest a shite ton in our sports
you said sports passion
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:33 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
you said sports passion
yes
and dollars means a lot more in terms of passion than random allocations of emotion one day a week
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:33 pm to WarSlamEagle
(no message)
This post was edited on 10/2/25 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:37 pm to GeauxTigers2020
quote:
We are apparently too naive to understand the wonders he is working, and he's not responsible for poor results because "the talent pool isn't good enough."
i do love this argument
especially when we have issues with mid-level CONCACAF teams
especially with our history of dominating CONCACAF (with the 3-colored figs) long prior to jurgen
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:40 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
our money advantage with our sheer population (and genetic) advantage is going to give us the time to develop faster than any nation
While the U.S. is trying to get started in regards to youth development, other countries are constantly evolving and tweaking how they approach youth training.
Population, again, has less to do with success in football than you seem to suggest. There is hardly a difference in the quantity of quality of players produced between 80m (Germany), 65m (France), 45m (Spain), 16m (the Netherlands) or 11m (Belgium). 318m might produce more players (which isn't even a guarantee when Football and Basketball reign supreme), but the quality of players isn't going to magically surpass other nations.
Uruguay: arguably the second most successful South American nation - Pop. 3.4m
2x WC champion, 3 time Semi-finalist
15x Copa America champion, 6 runner up, 8 third place.
quote:
we have more money, more sports passion, and more athleticism than any other nation.
More passion is a blatantly false statement, esp. in regards to 'soccer'. There isn't even an argument necessary for that.
quote:
past 20 years
While the MLS has definitely made strides, can you really say the talent pool for the USMNT has improved? Is the talent pool now any better than it was in 1994?
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:44 pm to Piscinin
I said I was done with you, but this...
That's why he said sports passion. America cares and puts more money more about sports, the collective, than most nations.
quote:
More passion is a blatantly false statement, esp. in regards to 'soccer'. There isn't even an argument necessary for that.
That's why he said sports passion. America cares and puts more money more about sports, the collective, than most nations.
This post was edited on 3/26/16 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:46 pm to Piscinin
quote:
While the U.S. is trying to get started in regards to youth development, other countries are constantly evolving and tweaking how they approach youth training.
again. it's not like this is some secret, magic formula. or that our own developmental systems won't emerge (with our money and industrious nature, i'm actually banking on this. we lead the world in ideas by a great margin. i can't imagine that won't apply to soccer)
quote:
Population, again, has less to do with success in football than you seem to suggest. There is hardly a difference in the quantity of quality of players produced between 80m (Germany), 65m (France), 45m (Spain), 16m (the Netherlands) or 11m (Belgium).
in terms of history, belgium and holland are outliers. belgium hasn't done shite nationally, either. they just have a golden generation that is near/at its peak right now. lots of bias. on the flip side, holland is in shambles right now and doesn't consistently put out teams like the bigger euroeapn nations
their golden generation hit its prime in the late 90s and they've been up and down since
quote:
Uruguay: arguably the second most successful South American nation
quote:
2x WC champion,
in 1930 and 1950, bruv
Argentina has won 2 since then and been to 2 more finals
quote:
While the MLS has definitely made strides, can you really say the talent pool for the USMNT has improved?
since 1996?
yes
quote:
Is the talent pool now any better than it was in 1994?
how many professionals did we have on that team?
how many players on that team could play in europe?
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:47 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
That's why he said sports passion. America cares and puts more money more about sports, the collective, than most nations.
his comment was so ridiculous and idiotic it wasn't even worth responding to
Posted on 3/26/16 at 5:48 pm to WarSlamEagle
But that passion isn't directed towards soccer, the sport being discussed in this thread, and isn't even close to comparable to how it is elsewhere, genius.
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