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Message
re: Donovan: Does he have a point or sour grapes?
Posted on 7/3/14 at 7:48 am to Methuselah
Posted on 7/3/14 at 7:48 am to Methuselah
quote:
I wonder what would have happened if Klinsman had brought Donovan in only to use a a sub or to put in if Altidore went down?
This was hat I was thinking and had to be part of the reason Klinnsman left him behind. If he rides the bench and Altidore doesn't get injured, what does that do to all of these questions, how much extra pressure does that put on the team?
1
Posted on 7/3/14 at 7:54 am to cwil177
quote:
Fact: Half of this board would have been better at this than Zusi.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 8:06 am to uway
quote:
Handling it well would be not criticizing the coach and making everything about himself. Maybe saying "no comment" when a reporter invites you to bash the tactics.
LD is manifestly and deeply self-centered. He's a 32 year old who seems only to have learned the art of sounding wise to 22 year olds.
Did Landon frick your girlfriend or something?
Posted on 7/3/14 at 8:15 am to Freauxzen
Most of us that felt strongly about the LD decision did not expect him to start. I know I didn't. We felt he could have been used as a super sub in a close, late game situation.
You have people questioning why Beckerman, Bacon, and Mix weren't used in the last game. If Donovan were on the team and hadn't been used in the Belgium game I don't think those questions would change, he would just be another name added to that list.
Especially in a do or die situation where we needed a miracle goal. Someone Landon has a history of being able to and can still do.
Like the Belgium game.
What he said is not that much different than other soccer analysts have said in their USMNT post-mortems.
I think Landon should have been there. Would he have made the goal in the 93rd minute? I have no idea.
But anyone using his opinion here to erase the accomplishments of the USMNT's highest goal scorer in it's history, the face of this team for over a decade, a player that has given so much on and off the field to the team, is just being unreasonable to the point of absurdity.
But Klinsmann fanboys and Donovan fanboys are never going to change the other's mind.
It's become the third rail of this board.
You have people questioning why Beckerman, Bacon, and Mix weren't used in the last game. If Donovan were on the team and hadn't been used in the Belgium game I don't think those questions would change, he would just be another name added to that list.
Especially in a do or die situation where we needed a miracle goal. Someone Landon has a history of being able to and can still do.
Like the Belgium game.
What he said is not that much different than other soccer analysts have said in their USMNT post-mortems.
I think Landon should have been there. Would he have made the goal in the 93rd minute? I have no idea.
But anyone using his opinion here to erase the accomplishments of the USMNT's highest goal scorer in it's history, the face of this team for over a decade, a player that has given so much on and off the field to the team, is just being unreasonable to the point of absurdity.
But Klinsmann fanboys and Donovan fanboys are never going to change the other's mind.
It's become the third rail of this board.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 8:19 am to cwil177
quote:
Did Landon frick your girlfriend or something?
Or boyfriend? We're not here to judge.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 8:35 am to cwil177
La di da
I don't have a reputation to tarnish, nor do I have a girlfriend
I don't have a reputation to tarnish, nor do I have a girlfriend
Posted on 7/3/14 at 8:38 am to BamaChick
quote:
But anyone using his opinion here to erase the accomplishments of the USMNT's highest goal scorer in it's history, the face of this team for over a decade, a player that has given so much on and off the field to the team, is just being unreasonable to the point of absurdity.
What's the saying? If you want to run in the Preakness you don't leave your prize stallion at home?
Donovan should have been on the roster and he has a reason to be a bit disappointed IMO. He had to sit home while much less talented players were on the pitch for the US. Of course, he did pick an inopportune time to take his spiritual journey or whatever it was. Klinsmann probably had some major questions about his commitment to the team after that.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 9:18 am to BamaChick
quote:
Most of us that felt strongly about the LD decision did not expect him to start. I know I didn't. We felt he could have been used as a super sub in a close, late game situation.
You have people questioning why Beckerman, Bacon, and Mix weren't used in the last game. If Donovan were on the team and hadn't been used in the Belgium game I don't think those questions would change, he would just be another name added to that list.
I just really really doubt that. We'd have a backup quarterback problem. Agree to disagree, but it was at least a potential distraction.
quote:
I think Landon should have been there. Would he have made the goal in the 93rd minute? I have no idea.
For Klinnsman (and everyone else), Hindsight is 20/20. Landon probably should have been there.
quote:
But anyone using his opinion here to erase the accomplishments of the USMNT's highest goal scorer in it's history, the face of this team for over a decade, a player that has given so much on and off the field to the team, is just being unreasonable to the point of absurdity.
Who's doing that? Landon is awesome. Regardless of the zinger of a comment and the lack of pointing out the situation (playing Dempsey alone up top was not Klinnsman's strategy, that's for sure), he's the greatest American soccer player to ever live.
quote:
But Klinsmann fanboys and Donovan fanboys are never going to change the other's mind.
I don't think it's fanboys, I think it's the vastly different approach to decision making and the game that people have.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 9:29 am to tduecen
We had more possession. We were pretty open and free to play. Our problem was a lack of pace and hold up play up top. Belgium constantly got in behind us...we didn't have anyone that could that. Bedoya isn't offensive enough; Zusi not a runner, same for Dempsey.
Go rewatch. Bradley and Cameron had plenty of the ball and made a lot of really nice forward passes. Without Jozy, we weren't going to play slow build up at feet and have sharp combinations. It was going to be work side to side, and midfielders hit a ball behind.
Our personnel was limited in what we could do. Belgium came into the WC with three big arse center forwards they could run out there and a number of creative midfielders.
In the attack, we had Dempsey. That's it. We were severely limited in personnel. Jurgen probably could have left Brad Davis or Mix (if he wasn't going to use him) home for Boyd, who'd have given us something similar to Jozy.
He brought three Dempsey type players (Clint, Bacon, Wondo) -- who rely on playing off another player and movement to get goals.
We made the most of what we had, and were a Wondo shank away from the final 8. Tactics worked. Donovan's expressing his opinion, and that's fine. I just disagree.
Go rewatch. Bradley and Cameron had plenty of the ball and made a lot of really nice forward passes. Without Jozy, we weren't going to play slow build up at feet and have sharp combinations. It was going to be work side to side, and midfielders hit a ball behind.
Our personnel was limited in what we could do. Belgium came into the WC with three big arse center forwards they could run out there and a number of creative midfielders.
In the attack, we had Dempsey. That's it. We were severely limited in personnel. Jurgen probably could have left Brad Davis or Mix (if he wasn't going to use him) home for Boyd, who'd have given us something similar to Jozy.
He brought three Dempsey type players (Clint, Bacon, Wondo) -- who rely on playing off another player and movement to get goals.
We made the most of what we had, and were a Wondo shank away from the final 8. Tactics worked. Donovan's expressing his opinion, and that's fine. I just disagree.
This post was edited on 7/3/14 at 9:30 am
Posted on 7/3/14 at 9:33 am to Freauxzen
quote:
the lack of pointing out the situation (playing Dempsey alone up top was not Klinnsman's strategy, that's for sure)
The thing is if Donovan were in the squad I think it's safe to say that he would have been much more effective in that attacking role than Bradley. Clint still would have been playing out of position, but Bradley could have stayed in his more natural role and not had to take on so much attacking responsibility. It's definitely easy to look back and say this now, but that is a much better backup plan to Jozy going down than what they had without Donovan IMO.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 9:39 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:
We made the most of what we had, and were a Wondo shank away from the final 8. Tactics worked.
Bingo.
Against a Top 10 team.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 9:44 am to tduecen
Donovan certainly has a point. He's not saying anything that most of the informed posters haven't been saying all cup long. His observations are pretty much right on the money and I echo many of his sentiments..
This post was edited on 7/3/14 at 9:46 am
Posted on 7/3/14 at 9:59 am to crazy4lsu
The more I step back and think about the whole Jozy situation the more it becomes obvious that Klinsmann did have a backup for him, and that was pushing Dempsey up top. The problem with that was who takes Clint's CAM/withheld role. Klinsmann must have believed that Bradley could step into that role because there's no other reason to leave Donovan off the squad otherwise.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 10:02 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Who's doing that?
Oh, not you. I'm referring to posts like these.
quote:
What a bunch of bullshite. Donovan has soured his legacy with anyone who doesnt think he shits rainbows.
quote:
sour-arse Donovan
quote:
Handling it well would be not criticizing the coach and making everything about himself.
quote:
LD is manifestly and deeply self-centered. He's a 32 year old who seems only to have learned the art of sounding wise to 22 year olds.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 10:02 am to tduecen
Landon is 100% CORRECT.
As we were watching the match my wife, who almost never watches soccer, except when I use it as an excuse to drag her into Buffalo Wild Wings, kept commenting that "don't they understand that they should be kicking the ball TOWARD the goal?"
Now, as an occasional viewer I can understand the need to regroup the attack every now and then, but from a purely logical, laws-of-physics standpoint she is entirely correct. You've already gained the territory... now move it in on goal. You're going to be outnumbered, you say? Well, yes, and you're certainly going to be outnumbered if you pussyfoot around with the ball on your own half of the field. And this is soccer, by golly, where a ball can bounce in regardless of numbers... if it's close enough to the goal.
The Americans themselves proved the point when near the end of the game, suddenly in frantic mode, they decided to forget all that pitty pat nonsense and actually do what they're supposed to do.... kick the ball into the net. All of a sudden there were near-scores galore.
It's a pity, really. That second US goal was the one that would have catapulted the game in American consciousness. It would have been an amazing, dramatic outcome from an heroic and stellar effort... the type of stuff American viewers love. Instead, meh. Same old, same old I'm afraid.
As we were watching the match my wife, who almost never watches soccer, except when I use it as an excuse to drag her into Buffalo Wild Wings, kept commenting that "don't they understand that they should be kicking the ball TOWARD the goal?"
Now, as an occasional viewer I can understand the need to regroup the attack every now and then, but from a purely logical, laws-of-physics standpoint she is entirely correct. You've already gained the territory... now move it in on goal. You're going to be outnumbered, you say? Well, yes, and you're certainly going to be outnumbered if you pussyfoot around with the ball on your own half of the field. And this is soccer, by golly, where a ball can bounce in regardless of numbers... if it's close enough to the goal.
The Americans themselves proved the point when near the end of the game, suddenly in frantic mode, they decided to forget all that pitty pat nonsense and actually do what they're supposed to do.... kick the ball into the net. All of a sudden there were near-scores galore.
It's a pity, really. That second US goal was the one that would have catapulted the game in American consciousness. It would have been an amazing, dramatic outcome from an heroic and stellar effort... the type of stuff American viewers love. Instead, meh. Same old, same old I'm afraid.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 10:08 am to Rex
quote:
"don't they understand that they should be kicking the ball TOWARD the goal?"
they decided to forget all that pitty pat nonsense and actually do what they're supposed to do.... kick the ball into the net.
Easier said than done. There were a whole lot of tactical reason that there were more opportunities late in the game, and the way that a lot of those opportunities were created would have killed them any point earlier in the match. Not to mention that Belgium at that point had basically been rope-a-doped. We just didn't have the quality to deliver knockout punches.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 10:15 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:
and were a Wondo shank away from the final 8
That would've been a complete robbery of the game. Yes, they happen, but it was clear which team played a better game.
quote:
Tactics worked.
Wow....just wow....
Posted on 7/3/14 at 10:17 am to vuvuzela
quote:
Wow....just wow....
How do you want us to play? You have to be realistic about the talent. Belgium was loaded with CL talent. We've got no one who will play on that stage next year.
We did what we had to do to get a result, and we nearly got it. Be realistic.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 10:19 am to Rex
quote:
The Americans themselves proved the point when near the end of the game, suddenly in frantic mode, they decided to forget all that pitty pat nonsense and actually do what they're supposed to do.... kick the ball into the net. All of a sudden there were near-scores galore.
It also helped that Belgium went into a shell. This happens all the time at every level of football.
quote:
It's a pity, really. That second US goal was the one that would have catapulted the game in American consciousness. It would have been an amazing, dramatic outcome from an heroic and stellar effort... the type of stuff American viewers love. Instead, meh. Same old, same old I'm afraid.
Lol. The sport has never been bigger in the country. This year's showing was a massive success. We got out of the Group of Death after losing our best forward. Quit being such a downer.
Posted on 7/3/14 at 10:21 am to vuvuzela
Us almost winning that game had less to do with tactics and more to do with Tim Howard.
If he has just a great game instead of an all-time great, phenomenal game, then we probably lose by 3 or 4 goals.
If he has just a great game instead of an all-time great, phenomenal game, then we probably lose by 3 or 4 goals.
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