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re: A Look back at the 23 / Player grades
Posted on 7/2/14 at 1:46 pm to RB10
Posted on 7/2/14 at 1:46 pm to RB10
quote:
to say Bedoya and Bradley had similar performances in this WC is ridiculous.
If i knew nothing of the players prior, then i would say they had very similar world cups/ MB was involved more and prbly had more mistakes but he played a larger role for the team and prbly did more for the team offensively, defensively and through work rate.
But if looking at prior expectations, a low rating of bradley is prbly warranted
1
Posted on 7/2/14 at 1:53 pm to petar
quote:
But if looking at prior expectations, a low rating of bradley is prbly warranted
This is what it's all about when rating a player. It's not just about the stats. You have to take into account what each players role in the squad was and what's expected of them. Bedoya did his job and did it well. Bradley did not.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:01 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Wondo actually played pretty well other than going missing his one shot. Mom's spaghetti.
Brad Davis was hot garbage.
Brad Davis was hot garbage.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:04 pm to RB10
quote:
This is all true, but you can't give possession away like he dad as a CM. There were times that his play was just sloppy and it led to several opportunities for the opponent. B is too high. I will admit that a D, which I have him, is probably too low. It really was a C- at best from him.
You make good points about being too sloppy with the ball and also messing up some huge chances of which the USA had so few.
I think people's differing ratings has a lot to do with expectations though.
I'm a huge AS Roma fan and watched Bradley play a majority of his matches for the club for a year and half about the same level as he did in the WC.
He consistently fluffed a lot of attacking chances and never really displayed immaculate possession skills when facing better opposition at Roma which is why the club bought Strootman and Naingollan in his same position.
My thought of the B- was simply was that, while I was hoping he'd play the matches of his life, his performance against, say, all the Ghanian midfielders that also play in Serie A, was about like he always did for AS Roma: some great quality passes mixed with crap ones, questionable positioning but superhuman work rate and grit.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:07 pm to etm512
quote:
That early injury seemed to help our offense more than anything
Well we lost 2-1. I would have rather bring on beckerman and take our chances in pks. I mean Howard was on another level. Yedlin helped out, but at times left us exposed. De bruyne killed us. We had no answer for him.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:08 pm to RB10
quote:
This is what it's all about when rating a player.
I disagree and think its more about how the player actually played in the games. and i think if looking at how a player played in the games , it does take into account the role they are given.
Granted this point is nothing to do with bradley just on the rating of players.
But to bradley he made some excellent passes yesterday and not just the one to Green. He hit yedlin (and one accross the field switch of play in particular) on several outstanding passes.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:14 pm to petar
quote:
I disagree and think its more about how the player actually played in the games. and i think if looking at how a player played in the games , it does take into account the role they are given.
Of course it's about how they actually played the game, but you have to take into account the role they play.
Bradley is always going to have more possession and make more of those critical passes than Bedoya. Bradley is a CM and that's what he's suppossed to do. Bedoya was not out there to be an attacking threat or to make those key passes. He was out there to put in the work up and down the flank. To make the runs that stretch the field and open up lanes, but also to cover back when he needed to. Again, Bedoya did his job exactly as he should have been expected to. He deserves much more credit than he's getting. Bradley did not do his job very well and deserves some of the criticism that's he's receiving.
ETA: when you're rating a player you have to base it off of their role in the team. It would be ridiculous to say Bradley played like shite because he didn't score any goals or Clint deserves a C grade because he didn't defend. Rating Bedoya lower because he didn't make any game changing plays is stupid because he wasn't put on the field to do that, and he knew it.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:22 pm to RB10
quote:
you have to take into account the role they play.
You can do this by watching the games.......
But to the rest of it, i think Bradley is taking too much criticism for the way the team played overall in the midfield. I would venture to say that no one in the midfield yesterday played that well. Jones did alright, but he looked tired as he lost possession numerous times, and prbly should have scored or at least put in some better efforts. Zusi and Bedoya were non existant. Cameron did alright but provided nothing moving forward. Bradley did not play well yesterday either but i don't think i would be too far off in saying that he was possibly our best midfielder yesterday
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:24 pm to petar
quote:
Zusi and Bedoya were non existant
You're right about Zusi, but did you not notice that nearly every attack Belgium had came down one side of the field? Why do you think that is?
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:25 pm to RB10
quote:
when you're rating a player you have to base it off of their role in the team. It would be ridiculous to say Bradley played like shite because he didn't score any goals or Clint deserves a C grade because he didn't defend. Rating Bedoya lower because he didn't make any game changing plays is stupid because he wasn't put on the field to do that, and he knew it.
of course and i never said anything against this. I said we should avoid using fans' prior expectations in rating players. and use on the field play (which includes roles in that). Bedoya doesn't get low ratings because of lack of game changing plays. He gets low ratings because to me it seemed as he did very little but defend and all our midfielders did fine in that aspect. to me, i could not really tell you what he and zusi did for much of this cup
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:27 pm to RB10
quote:
You're right about Zusi, but did you not notice that nearly every attack Belgium had came down one side of the field? Why do you think that is?
I havent said he didn't defend well. That is great in all but a left mids role is not to solely defend. DmB had more of an attacking mind than he did.
and one side had hazard the other side did not.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:28 pm to petar
quote:
of course and i never said anything against this. I said we should avoid using fans' prior expectations in rating players. and use on the field play (which includes roles in that). Bedoya doesn't get low ratings because of lack of game changing plays. He gets low ratings because to me it seemed as he did very little but defend and all our midfielders did fine in that aspect. to me, i could not really tell you what he and zusi did for much of this cup
You keep answering your own question. Bedoya was not in the side to be an attacking threat. He was in the side because of his work rate and ability to defend as a midfielder. Yet, your saying he didn't play well because he wasn't doing anything offensively.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:31 pm to petar
quote:
I havent said he didn't defend well. That is great in all but a left mids role is not to solely defend. DmB had more of an attacking mind than he did.
You're contradicting yourself with each post. No Bedoya was not on the field solely to defend, but that was his most important job. The reason Beasley was more attack minded was because this. There is such a thing as defensive minded outside mids and that's the role Bedoya played. He was there to stretch the defense to open lanes when Beasley/Fabian weren't making a run and to cover for them when they did.
quote:
and one side had hazard the other side did not.
It was actually because one side had Zusi and the other had Bedoya. De bruyn and hazard stayed to one side most of the night for a reason.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 2:34 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:50 pm to Jumbeauxlaya
Eddie Johnson should have been brought over Wondo.
But ANYONE who is judging Wondo off of one miss is over analyzing a 4 minute spell vs Pprtugal and a 30 minute spell vs Belgium.
We had much more of the ball once Wondo came in and mant more chances than before he came in.
You can't grade a guy off of one miss, evrryone gas missed a sitter, he just let the ball bounce and the spin took the ball away from him.
I didn't like him over Eddie Johnson or Davis over Landon.
But ANYONE who is judging Wondo off of one miss is over analyzing a 4 minute spell vs Pprtugal and a 30 minute spell vs Belgium.
We had much more of the ball once Wondo came in and mant more chances than before he came in.
You can't grade a guy off of one miss, evrryone gas missed a sitter, he just let the ball bounce and the spin took the ball away from him.
I didn't like him over Eddie Johnson or Davis over Landon.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:54 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
Eddie Johnson should have been nowhere near Brazil. You probably have GAM and Boyd mixed up.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:56 pm to RB10
quote:
You're contradicting yourself with each post.
Im not. I refuse to rate highly a midfield player who only defended. If we wanted him solely to defend and DmB to move forward, why not start another defender and push DmB to a midfield role.
quote:
There is such a thing as defensive minded outside mids and that's the role Bedoya played.
trust me i understand i saw Park play for years in this role for united. But park had a bigger role to play than just defend like help retain possession. move forward in the attack.
quote:
It was actually because one side had Zusi and the other had Bedoya. De bruyn and hazard stayed to one side most of the night for a reason.
I could be wrong but i believe hazard plays on the left side for Belgium generally.
don't get me wrong, i dont think Bedoya played poorly. I just don't see how you can give a distinction of Bradley D- and Bedoya B when both players played well defensively and Bradley actually had some offensive input and worked his arse off from box to box
Posted on 7/2/14 at 3:08 pm to petar
I've already admitted that a D was probably harsh for Bradley but that's how I, personally, feel about his performance. I can't give him too much credit because he was just too sloppy at times. I thought Bedoya played his role perfectly and that's why he got a B. He wasn't great by any stretch but he was solid, which is more than Bradley was IMO.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 3:11 pm to RB10
No way was Bradley < Bedoya at this cup.
As was Jones for much of the last two games, as was Zusi for the entire cup, as im sure Bedoya was if i could remember any time he touched the ball.
my point is only: Yes Bradley did not play up to his expectations but he was still as good as any of our midfield except maybe Jones
quote:
I can't give him too much credit because he was just too sloppy at times.
As was Jones for much of the last two games, as was Zusi for the entire cup, as im sure Bedoya was if i could remember any time he touched the ball.
my point is only: Yes Bradley did not play up to his expectations but he was still as good as any of our midfield except maybe Jones
Posted on 7/2/14 at 3:31 pm to petar
quote:
my point is only: Yes Bradley did not play up to his expectations but he was still as good as any of our midfield except maybe Jones
I don't agree with you at all on this so let's just agree to disagree.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 3:34 pm to petar
quote:
No way was Bradley < Bedoya at this cup.
I think he was but, again, agree to disagree. I'm done arguing about this.
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