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re: A Look back at the 23 / Player grades
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:23 am to Poodlebrain
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:23 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
Do you think Landon Donovan would have seriously changed the possession time to the United States' benefit? Would he have made passes that no other player could make, or held the ball allowing better offensive opportunities? I don't think so. But I do think his athleticism would have allowed him to be on the receiving end of some passes that our lesser athletes were beaten to. And the threat of his athleticism would have forced defensive adjustments from our opponents.
To answer briefly as not to derail the thread - yes. If you still disagree go rewatch the performances of Davis, Zusi, Bedoya and Wondo.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:32 am to etm512
quote:
Do you think Landon Donovan would have seriously changed the possession time to the United States' benefit? Would he have made passes that no other player could make
Yes, I do think so.
That Donovan would have offered the defensive cover Zusi or Bedoya did is a legitimate question. (Not Davis as he was a hug defensive liability and offered almost nothing in attack either).
However, there's little question that Donovan, even as a late sub, would have not been nearly as overmatched as Zusi seemed to be and a great sub when Bedoya was tiring from so much defensive cover.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:33 am to StraightCashHomey21
I'll grade the guys that actually played:
Howard - A+ (No need for explanation)
Fabian - A - Fantastic cup. He was the biggest attacking threat we had going forward. Would like to see him be just a bit stronger in his tackling in the back.
Besler - B - he worked his arse off and was our only solid CB. Seemed a bit slow at time though and got flat out manhandled on Belgiums 2nd.
Cameron - C- -He looked downright shaky at times and was directly responsible for Portugals 1st and was out if position on their 2nd.
Gonzo - D -He's big and a good tackler, but he's slow and his work rate is horrible at times.
Beasley - B+ -Absolutely worked his arse off. Can't expect much more from him than what he gave. Only reason I didn't give him an A is his defending was suspect at times and he's horrible at marking.
Bedoya - B- -Another guy that have 110%. Was impressed with his ability and willingness to cover when Fabian or Beasley made their runs forward. Would like to see a bit more attacking flair from him going forward though.
Zusi - F -It was clear his confidence was shaken every time he touched the ball. His first touch was bad, his passes were bad, and his deliveries were awful. Also, his defensive effort is downright lousy. Hopefully he can rebound from this.
Becks - A -Gattuso-esq play from him. Passing could be a bit suspect and he was not an attacking threat at all, but he was an absolute bulldog in the middle. Was really surprised by his play because I was very critical of him before the cup.
Jones - A+ -No explanation needed here either. As someone said before: Soldier.
Bradley - D -Very disappointed in his play. First touch was awful and he couldn't keep possession or pick out the right pass when were on the counter.
Yedlin - A -Kid's going to be a star. Incredibly composed for his first WC and pbviously has the pace and ability to be a serious threat.
Dempsey - B+ -Same old Clint. Put the ball at his feet and he will create something. Would have LOVED to see how he played with Jozy had he not gotten hurt.
Wondo, Davis - LOL
Brooks - I wish Klinsmann had given him more time on the field. After a goal like that guys sometimes gain confidence and go on a tear. Would rather have seen him on the field then Gonzales vs. Belgium.
Howard - A+ (No need for explanation)
Fabian - A - Fantastic cup. He was the biggest attacking threat we had going forward. Would like to see him be just a bit stronger in his tackling in the back.
Besler - B - he worked his arse off and was our only solid CB. Seemed a bit slow at time though and got flat out manhandled on Belgiums 2nd.
Cameron - C- -He looked downright shaky at times and was directly responsible for Portugals 1st and was out if position on their 2nd.
Gonzo - D -He's big and a good tackler, but he's slow and his work rate is horrible at times.
Beasley - B+ -Absolutely worked his arse off. Can't expect much more from him than what he gave. Only reason I didn't give him an A is his defending was suspect at times and he's horrible at marking.
Bedoya - B- -Another guy that have 110%. Was impressed with his ability and willingness to cover when Fabian or Beasley made their runs forward. Would like to see a bit more attacking flair from him going forward though.
Zusi - F -It was clear his confidence was shaken every time he touched the ball. His first touch was bad, his passes were bad, and his deliveries were awful. Also, his defensive effort is downright lousy. Hopefully he can rebound from this.
Becks - A -Gattuso-esq play from him. Passing could be a bit suspect and he was not an attacking threat at all, but he was an absolute bulldog in the middle. Was really surprised by his play because I was very critical of him before the cup.
Jones - A+ -No explanation needed here either. As someone said before: Soldier.
Bradley - D -Very disappointed in his play. First touch was awful and he couldn't keep possession or pick out the right pass when were on the counter.
Yedlin - A -Kid's going to be a star. Incredibly composed for his first WC and pbviously has the pace and ability to be a serious threat.
Dempsey - B+ -Same old Clint. Put the ball at his feet and he will create something. Would have LOVED to see how he played with Jozy had he not gotten hurt.
Wondo, Davis - LOL
Brooks - I wish Klinsmann had given him more time on the field. After a goal like that guys sometimes gain confidence and go on a tear. Would rather have seen him on the field then Gonzales vs. Belgium.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 11:39 am
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:44 am to StraightCashHomey21
Wondo missed a shot, he should have passed, but when he came in the US got far more possession of the ball.
He is also they guy that made the pass to Dempsey on the free kick that Dempsey should have buried. Both Wondo and Green were watching Demps instead if following him in the hole, either would have had a tap on off of the rebound. Lesso, always move, never watch.
Zusi was a waste of space for 4 games save one pass.
Brad Davis should never have been picked over Landon.
Green should have been brought on earlier, in like the first exyra time.
Beckerman should have started, there was no reason ti change the defense that had worked so well.
Yeldin should have started for Zusi on the wing.
My starting 11 would have been
Johnson Gonzo Besler Beasley
Yeldin Jones Beckerman Bradley
................... Dempsey
................... Wondo ( should have brought Eddie Johnson
He is also they guy that made the pass to Dempsey on the free kick that Dempsey should have buried. Both Wondo and Green were watching Demps instead if following him in the hole, either would have had a tap on off of the rebound. Lesso, always move, never watch.
Zusi was a waste of space for 4 games save one pass.
Brad Davis should never have been picked over Landon.
Green should have been brought on earlier, in like the first exyra time.
Beckerman should have started, there was no reason ti change the defense that had worked so well.
Yeldin should have started for Zusi on the wing.
My starting 11 would have been
Johnson Gonzo Besler Beasley
Yeldin Jones Beckerman Bradley
................... Dempsey
................... Wondo ( should have brought Eddie Johnson
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:47 am to RB10
I dont understand such a bad grade for Bradley other than pinning it on the expectations but to say bedoya gets a B- and Bradley gets a D is a little outrageous.
Jones turned the ball over more yesterday than Bradley did. and for most of the cup i bet the each lost similar number of possessions. Same with Becks.
Not taking away from either's performance as i think they were outstanding but don't know how bradley can get such a lower rating from anyone.
minus the pre-cup info on becks i think you could switch the analysis around on each and it would still be spot on
Jones turned the ball over more yesterday than Bradley did. and for most of the cup i bet the each lost similar number of possessions. Same with Becks.
Not taking away from either's performance as i think they were outstanding but don't know how bradley can get such a lower rating from anyone.
minus the pre-cup info on becks i think you could switch the analysis around on each and it would still be spot on
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:50 am to etm512
quote:
Zusi: F
- only reason this isn't F----- is because of his one delivery into the box on Brooks' goal. Zusi's role is to take the ball out wide and have nice delivery on crosses as well as put the ball in dangerous spots on set pieces. He did this once. I would love to see an analysis on how many of his balls didn't even beat the first man on both crosses and corners
Who do you want him to cross the ball to? I agree, he was not very good this tournament, and didn't provide great service, but there weren't a lot of opportunities for him to deliver crosses, especially without Jozy.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 11:55 am
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:06 pm to RB10
quote:
He looked downright shaky at times and was directly responsible for Portugals 1st and
was out if position on their 2nd.
Not true in the least.
He was in perfect position. He was unaware that a player was coming in behind him. That responsibilty to let him know falls to his trailing midfielders (all clumped to Ronaldo's side) or to the outside back (who was probably looking at three players, because Yedlin was chilling at the other 18.)
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:14 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
Wondo
lord no he has show he just isn't the quality we need for this level
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:15 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Howard A
Fab Johnson A-
most of the time looked like the player with the most pure quality USA had on the pitch by a long shot
Yedlin B+
raw and defensively naive is an understatement. Still he came in with a brash, infectious confidence and proved to be the most dangerous attacking option when he was playing
Jones B+
(player of the tournament as far as grit and passion, lack of quality on the ball/passing evident though in US's inability to hold possession and avoid dangerous turnovers)
Beasley B+
(played much better than almost anyone expected not just defending but also getting loose on the break a few times per match, nothing to criticize aside from him not being a world class LB)
Dempsey B-
out of his element with Altidore's injury. key goals but some real missed chances to play a great pass instead of shooting
Beckerman B-
he has his shortcomings in terms of elite passing/ball control but no one could ask more of him as he did his job
Bradley B-
out of his element as attacking mid, some key errors and his usual often aimless positional wandering but worked hard on defense. Also people miss that over half of the really incisive, top class passes to retain possession, change field with a long ball to the opposite flank or set up a shot on goal etc etc the entire team made during the entire 4 games still came from Bradley.
Bedoya C+
hard to grade since his fantastic work rate that was as much as Howard the reason the USA conceded so few goals while being dominated through the midfield in most matches deserves an A. Ideally, he shouldn't have been only an extra defender.
Besler C+
nothing great but pretty good with one costly error
Cameron C+
about like Besler at CB --- pretty good but not great with one huge error. was pretty surprised at how much he was outclassed passing and controlling the ball in midfield when Belgium pressed though he did a good job defensively.
Gonzalez C+
did pretty well but still often positionally challenged
Zusi C-
worked on defense, played with a lot of passion and delivered the corner that was probably the key moment in the USA getting out of group. However, he seemed to have nowhere near the class in the attack to contribute at this level
Wondolowski D-
was brought to poach a goal against the run of play and didn't
Davis F
he may have offered the least both defensively and offensively of any player to start a match for any team this WC
Brooks, Green, Jóhannsson INC+
immense goals from the German kids but none of these really played enough to grade. glad they're on the team for the next cycle though
Klinnsman B
Just like under Bob Bradley, the USMNT advanced from group, showing a lot of grit and determination and played better as team than the individual talent suggests.
Like under Bradley, it wasn't pretty but it was exciting and the team should be proud of their performance.
Jurgen's optimism and enthusiasm were important.
The controversial roster moves will remain a source of debate since he came out smelling like a rose on Yedlin and with the German kids looking pretty good for the future but like a rotting bratwurst about Davis and the general lack of productivity in the attacking midfield and lack of options when Altidore was injured after leaving Donovan at home.
Fab Johnson A-
most of the time looked like the player with the most pure quality USA had on the pitch by a long shot
Yedlin B+
raw and defensively naive is an understatement. Still he came in with a brash, infectious confidence and proved to be the most dangerous attacking option when he was playing
Jones B+
(player of the tournament as far as grit and passion, lack of quality on the ball/passing evident though in US's inability to hold possession and avoid dangerous turnovers)
Beasley B+
(played much better than almost anyone expected not just defending but also getting loose on the break a few times per match, nothing to criticize aside from him not being a world class LB)
Dempsey B-
out of his element with Altidore's injury. key goals but some real missed chances to play a great pass instead of shooting
Beckerman B-
he has his shortcomings in terms of elite passing/ball control but no one could ask more of him as he did his job
Bradley B-
out of his element as attacking mid, some key errors and his usual often aimless positional wandering but worked hard on defense. Also people miss that over half of the really incisive, top class passes to retain possession, change field with a long ball to the opposite flank or set up a shot on goal etc etc the entire team made during the entire 4 games still came from Bradley.
Bedoya C+
hard to grade since his fantastic work rate that was as much as Howard the reason the USA conceded so few goals while being dominated through the midfield in most matches deserves an A. Ideally, he shouldn't have been only an extra defender.
Besler C+
nothing great but pretty good with one costly error
Cameron C+
about like Besler at CB --- pretty good but not great with one huge error. was pretty surprised at how much he was outclassed passing and controlling the ball in midfield when Belgium pressed though he did a good job defensively.
Gonzalez C+
did pretty well but still often positionally challenged
Zusi C-
worked on defense, played with a lot of passion and delivered the corner that was probably the key moment in the USA getting out of group. However, he seemed to have nowhere near the class in the attack to contribute at this level
Wondolowski D-
was brought to poach a goal against the run of play and didn't
Davis F
he may have offered the least both defensively and offensively of any player to start a match for any team this WC
Brooks, Green, Jóhannsson INC+
immense goals from the German kids but none of these really played enough to grade. glad they're on the team for the next cycle though
Klinnsman B
Just like under Bob Bradley, the USMNT advanced from group, showing a lot of grit and determination and played better as team than the individual talent suggests.
Like under Bradley, it wasn't pretty but it was exciting and the team should be proud of their performance.
Jurgen's optimism and enthusiasm were important.
The controversial roster moves will remain a source of debate since he came out smelling like a rose on Yedlin and with the German kids looking pretty good for the future but like a rotting bratwurst about Davis and the general lack of productivity in the attacking midfield and lack of options when Altidore was injured after leaving Donovan at home.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:17 pm to wm72
I'd give Besler a B. He made the mistake to give up a goal but he was really solid all tournament long.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:19 pm to hendersonshands
I must have seen a different Geoff Cameron than most yesterday. I saw a guy that covered a ton of ground, looked VERY confident on the ball (did no one see him take on three or four defenders in the first ET?) and man a position well that he doesn't play very often.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:20 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
I'd give Besler a B. He made the mistake to give up a goal but he was really solid all tournament long.
Yeah a B or B- would be fair. He was pretty solid and under constant pressure due to the toothless midfield/attack going forward
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:24 pm to Sheep
quote:
I must have seen a different Geoff Cameron than most yesterday. I saw a guy that covered a ton of ground, looked VERY confident on the ball (did no one see him take on three or four defenders in the first ET?) and man a position well that he doesn't play very often.
That's fair. He did break up an immense amount of Belgium's play.
Maybe I was just expecting a little bit more from him against Belgium in terms of making a quick smart pass more often to keep the ball a minute. However, that he's not really a midfielder is certainly true.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:33 pm to wm72
quote:
wm72
yea i think my rating would look something like this..
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:33 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Davis and wondo proved they couldn't make the jump up from mls all-star to world cup.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:36 pm to Jumbeauxlaya
quote:
Davis and wondo proved they couldn't make the jump up from mls all-star to world cup.
Alot of us who said they had no business being on the team got shat on by the blind MLS followers.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 1:23 pm to petar
quote:
I dont understand such a bad grade for Bradley other than pinning it on the expectations but to say bedoya gets a B- and Bradley gets a D is a little outrageous.
It's based almost entirely on the expectations that I had for him. I didn't expect him to be a Ronaldo or messi, but I did expect him to play like the capable midfielder that I know he is. Fact is he could not keep possession consistently, had WAY to many cheap giveaways in the midfield, and held onto the ball too long or picked the wrong pass most of the time when the US was on the counter. He probably should get a C, but considering he is the most talented CM the US has on the roster he gets a D for such a poor showing in the WC.
The biggest problem was he didn't just have a bad game. He made the same mistakes in each game and never really improved.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 1:25 pm to Sheep
I thought Cameron did well yesterday too.
I honestly thought most of our players looked fine yesterday except Zusi was kind of shitty and Gonzalez seems a bit lazy because he's always caught ball watching.
I honestly thought most of our players looked fine yesterday except Zusi was kind of shitty and Gonzalez seems a bit lazy because he's always caught ball watching.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 1:26 pm to petar
quote:
I dont understand such a bad grade for Bradley other than pinning it on the expectations but to say bedoya gets a B- and Bradley gets a D is a little outrageous.
Bedoya did exactly what he was suppossed to do. He worked hard on both ends of the pitch and covered for the backs when they made their runs. He wasn't much of a threat in the attack, but to say Bedoya and Bradley had similar performances in this WC is ridiculous.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 1:33 pm to wm72
quote:
out of his element as attacking mid, some key errors and his usual often aimless positional wandering but worked hard on defense. Also people miss that over half of the really incisive, top class passes to retain possession, change field with a long ball to the opposite flank or set up a shot on goal etc etc the entire team made during the entire 4 games still came from Bradley.
This is all true, but you can't give possession away like he dad as a CM. There were times that his play was just sloppy and it led to several opportunities for the opponent. B is too high. I will admit that a D, which I have him, is probably too low. It really was a C- at best from him.
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