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Why would any person with ambition want to work in a union?
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:46 am
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:46 am
i thought about this a good deal yesterday b/c of some friends that i have who started their careers with a unionized employer (in an area that has a similar employer who is not unionized). they went through the lower ranks quickly and began to work in more specialized areas of the company. however, since they were part of a union, they could never formally be hired into the specialized roles (full time) until the more senior employees had retired (or got promoted)
so they ended up leaving. got immediately hired at the other employer that was not unionized in the exact specialty field they wanted to be in. they jumped ahead of a ton of older employees who aren't nearly as good at that specialty as my friends.
the union system was legitimately punishing them for being ambitious because it was based in an irrational sorting/promotion system (seniority). why would anyone who wants to better themselves and advance in their career subject themselves to such a system?
so they ended up leaving. got immediately hired at the other employer that was not unionized in the exact specialty field they wanted to be in. they jumped ahead of a ton of older employees who aren't nearly as good at that specialty as my friends.
the union system was legitimately punishing them for being ambitious because it was based in an irrational sorting/promotion system (seniority). why would anyone who wants to better themselves and advance in their career subject themselves to such a system?
9
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:46 am to SlowFlowPro
Strength in numbers
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:47 am to SlowFlowPro
Why don't you ask your friends?
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:49 am to SlowFlowPro
My fiancée is in the medical field that provides a specialized skill during open heart surgery. She was covered by a union at her hospital and made a shite ton of money because of it.
She is now at a non-union hospital and the difference in pay is staggering for call hours. When you’re on call and not at the hospital she got $25/hr, compared to now it’s $2 a hour.
Now you may be like whatever...but that’s potential every weekend, 48-56 hours at a time. That’s a shite ton of money.
She is now at a non-union hospital and the difference in pay is staggering for call hours. When you’re on call and not at the hospital she got $25/hr, compared to now it’s $2 a hour.
Now you may be like whatever...but that’s potential every weekend, 48-56 hours at a time. That’s a shite ton of money.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:50 am to SlowFlowPro
Maybe your ambition is to see how long you can pull down a paycheck.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:51 am to SlowFlowPro
I can see it somewhat in construction trades as the benefit packages for some of them are really good and you're probably not going to make a ton more non-union, unless the employer is just putting an entire benefit package on your check and making you deal with benefits on your own. Shops are a bit different situation because I think good employees on the line have a decent shot at moving up in the company and might not want to be tied down by the union.
Public employees are another discussion for another day.
Public employees are another discussion for another day.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:52 am to TheHarahanian
quote:
Maybe your ambition is to see how long you can pull down a paycheck.
that's kind of the opposite of ambitious and i agree those people are perfectly suited for unions, and i am not speaking negatively of their choices. not everyone is going to be ambitious and not everyone is going to want security over anything else. that's why options are good
this thread, however, is only about ambitious people
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:52 am to SlowFlowPro
its hard for me to get paid more since i can outwork most of my coworkers 3:1, but the overall pay for everyone plus all the benefits I get still make it a good job, just have to put the time in and wait for the higher paying positions.
I enjoy the security and how easy it is to outshine everyone else. we are so protected we can have legit 8 no call no shows before our first verbal warning.
The only bad part about my job is listening to lazy asses who still complain about everything. you could give these fricks a 5K bonus and theyd bitch about paying taxes on it right before asking why they couldnt get 5500.
I enjoy the security and how easy it is to outshine everyone else. we are so protected we can have legit 8 no call no shows before our first verbal warning.
The only bad part about my job is listening to lazy asses who still complain about everything. you could give these fricks a 5K bonus and theyd bitch about paying taxes on it right before asking why they couldnt get 5500.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:55 am to SlowFlowPro
i think the question would pertain to specific ares
1) public sector, why do you need a union for a public sector job
2) Union on a white collar environment - think this is pointless
3) union in a single plant/single company environment - less want to be in one
4) union for a skill trade that works for multiple companies - this can be beneficial to both the workers and the companies
use a trade like electrician or plumber. as part of a union they get training (apprenticeship) the employer gets a skilled pool of people to draw from as work goes up and down. its a symbiotic relationship
1) public sector, why do you need a union for a public sector job
2) Union on a white collar environment - think this is pointless
3) union in a single plant/single company environment - less want to be in one
4) union for a skill trade that works for multiple companies - this can be beneficial to both the workers and the companies
use a trade like electrician or plumber. as part of a union they get training (apprenticeship) the employer gets a skilled pool of people to draw from as work goes up and down. its a symbiotic relationship
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:58 am to YoungManOldMan
Not all unions are the same
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:01 am to tigeraddict
Pretty much ditto all of that. Nurses are a weird one. Like construction, there are a lot of exceptions in the labor law rules for them. I'm guessing the benefit there is kind of a case-by-case thing depending on the strength of the union.Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:02 am to SlowFlowPro
Protection. Most sports leagues have unions.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:03 am to SlowFlowPro
Unfortunately, unions have lost whatever utility they may have once had by becoming funding agents for one political party and advocating for policies that benefit them organizationally instead of the individual members.
The biggest DFR case in union history:
LINK /
Short version: The AFL affiliate national union threw it's members under the bus and allowed them to be stripped of their seniority and laid off while conducting back door negotiations with the independent union at the acquiring company in a bid to increase total membership.
The biggest DFR case in union history:
LINK /
Short version: The AFL affiliate national union threw it's members under the bus and allowed them to be stripped of their seniority and laid off while conducting back door negotiations with the independent union at the acquiring company in a bid to increase total membership.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:03 am to SlowFlowPro
You’re deciding what to put faith in.
A. Yourself. Best bet really. But many variables are out of your control except walking away. Unions gravitate to areas where that is not usually a serious option for the employee.
B. The Union. Have faith that a union has your back. Historically that’s a case by case issue.
C. The company/employer. Faith that they are not going to screw you. Again that’s case by case.
Without unions would there be sick days, maternity, overtime, 8 hour day, 40 hour week.
Would we still have company stores if companies remained in charge?
Some people have ambition. Some people just want to do a good job. Maybe just one job. For the rest of their lives.
I am in healthcare but not in a union. However, I will always position myself where I have an “upper hand” over the hospitals. The ONLY upper hand I can have is flexibility and ability to move jobs immediately if need be.
A. Yourself. Best bet really. But many variables are out of your control except walking away. Unions gravitate to areas where that is not usually a serious option for the employee.
B. The Union. Have faith that a union has your back. Historically that’s a case by case issue.
C. The company/employer. Faith that they are not going to screw you. Again that’s case by case.
Without unions would there be sick days, maternity, overtime, 8 hour day, 40 hour week.
Would we still have company stores if companies remained in charge?
Some people have ambition. Some people just want to do a good job. Maybe just one job. For the rest of their lives.
I am in healthcare but not in a union. However, I will always position myself where I have an “upper hand” over the hospitals. The ONLY upper hand I can have is flexibility and ability to move jobs immediately if need be.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:08 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Protection. Most sports leagues have unions.
and they actually often hurt the very top
Lebron would be much better off without the NBAPA
many of the top stars in the NFL would be, too
those unions protect the min contract guys much more than the elite talents (Which is what this thread is aimed at)
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:11 am to tigeraddict
quote:
i think the question would pertain to specific ares
1) public sector, why do you need a union for a public sector job
2) Union on a white collar environment - think this is pointless
3) union in a single plant/single company environment - less want to be in one
4) union for a skill trade that works for multiple companies - this can be beneficial to both the workers and the companies
that's a very good point
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:13 am to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
I am in healthcare but not in a union. However, I will always position myself where I have an “upper hand” over the hospitals. The ONLY upper hand I can have is flexibility and ability to move jobs immediately if need be.
i think that this is the reality of today and tomorrow and the issue is that so many people (including, sadly, politicians) are stuck in a 60s/70s mindset as it relates to employment. you are not going to have one employer for your career. you are going to have to move around, both in terms of employers and geography. you are going to have to develop a skill set or portfolio of clients that gives you value to keep the upper hand.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:47 am to tigeraddict
quote:Because the government is constantly changing contracts and breaking them. They also dip into retirement funds, promise to pay it back and never do. Then they also drag their asses to give any sort of raise that is guaranteed
1) public sector, why do you need a union for a public sector job
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:52 am to Gusoline
quote:
we are so protected we can have legit 8 no call no shows before our first verbal warning.
This is fricking ridiculous.
Please tell me that you do not think this is a good thing.
This is goddamn pathetic.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:52 am to SlowFlowPro
Why do we think we even need an employer? Why do we trade time for money to make someone else rich. Ambition, in my mind, would be finding opportunities to become the employer.
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