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Message
re: Why should we stay in NATO?
Posted on 2/27/26 at 6:43 am to SoFlaGuy
Posted on 2/27/26 at 6:43 am to SoFlaGuy
It is a defensive alliance that has provided peace and stability for North America and Western Europe for almost 100 years during a very violent and dangerous time.
The only players who want to dismantle NATO are the enemies of western civilization.
The only players who want to dismantle NATO are the enemies of western civilization.
This post was edited on 2/27/26 at 6:44 am
1
Posted on 2/27/26 at 6:58 am to Narax
quote:
That means if we get in a big war there are useful allies who will side with us.
Ask Kier Starmer about that, because we not only can't bomb Iran from Diego Garcia, he is giving control of the islands up.
You have a massively distorted view of how capable the UK, and German militaries are. The Poles and the Finns care about defense, the rest don't. The Poles have asked us to build "Fort Trump" regardless of NATO.
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:36 am to SoFlaGuy
quote:
But, we haven’t been to war with Trump in office. Why does that matter?
From 1/20/17 to 1/20/21 we were in Afghanistan
Poland sent over 33,000 soldiers to Afghanistan. In 2009 France spent over half their budget in Afghanistan. England lost 457 soldiers in Afghanistan, Canada 159, France 90, Germany 62. A third of soldiers that died in Afghanistan were from our NATO allies. It’s not a member of NATO, but the Ukraine lost soldiers stationed in Afghanistan.
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:39 am to LemmyLives
quote:
Ask Kier Starmer about that, because we not only can't bomb Iran from Diego Garcia, he is giving control of the islands up.
We can block it, I have no idea why we haven't yet.
It's also a defensive alliance.
quote:
You have a massively distorted view of how capable the UK, and German militaries are.
They are two different militaries.
The British have a small number of superb light infantry, a good air force and a good navy.
Germany is a joke.
But they could make a comeback if the AdF wins.
As long as we can stay in NATO we can influence these nations away from EU enslavement and towards being free pro western strong allies.
Thats what Rubio and Elon have been working towards.
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:40 am to MizzouBS
They are all weak with the exception of Poland
The UK has 70,000 troops and keeps scuttling ships. They can’t even defend their own island anymore on their own, let alone help elsewhere if needed. It is a subsidy and tripwire to be “allied” to a country like that
NATO is a complete waste. Europeans took advantage of us for 30 years by slashing their defense spending and obligations and relying on the US to uphold their “rules based international order”
The UK has 70,000 troops and keeps scuttling ships. They can’t even defend their own island anymore on their own, let alone help elsewhere if needed. It is a subsidy and tripwire to be “allied” to a country like that
NATO is a complete waste. Europeans took advantage of us for 30 years by slashing their defense spending and obligations and relying on the US to uphold their “rules based international order”
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:44 am to GeauxBurrow312
quote:
They are all weak with the exception of Poland
France has a very strong and capable military. Easily the best in Europe.
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:45 am to SoFlaGuy
Right off the top of my head, it's either everyone should pay and equal share or get out. But, I am sure there are compelling reasons to stay if they are made as a true concern for our defense or the member countries. Maybe put an a American in charge and that's a requirement for staying. But, we have got to stop being the biggest contributor and it's not really for our defense other than bases we have around the world. But, I am not a student of the NATO experience.
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:45 am to SoFlaGuy
quote:
Spinoff from other thread. Saw a few “no, that’s stupid” type responses. So, what’s the upside to stay in?
Influence.
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:48 am to Diamondawg
quote:
But, we have got to stop being the biggest contributor and it's not really for our defense other than bases we have around the world.
What do you mean by biggest contributor? Theres not a NATO army that we pay for to defend Europe. We just have the biggest army compared to the rest of NATO and the defense spending reflects that. If we want to stop being the “biggest contributor” to NATO all we have to do is cut our Army in half.
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:48 am to BOHICAMAN
France got ran out of West Africa
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:49 am to GeauxBurrow312
quote:We got run out of Afghanistan.
France got ran out of West Africa
And West Africa
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:51 am to BOHICAMAN
quote:
What do you mean by biggest contributor? Theres not a NATO army that we pay for to defend Europe. We just have the biggest army compared to the rest of NATO and the defense spending reflects that. If we want to stop being the “biggest contributor” to NATO all we have to do is cut our Army in half
None of them take their defense seriously because we subsidize a standing army, navy, and air fleet to be based in Europe 24/7
Why pay for your own army when the US will for you?
They spend peanuts. Most of them still haven’t even hit the 2% GDP spending they all agreed on back in 2007
They can either back pay us for the years of subsidy they received, or we walk. Why die for Europe? Their problems are their problems. They won’t back us in Iran, and if it goes down in Taiwan they won’t back us there either
Posted on 2/27/26 at 7:52 am to GeauxBurrow312
quote:
None of them take their defense seriously because we subsidize a standing army, navy, and air fleet to be based in Europe 24/7 Why pay for your own army when the US will for you?
Yes, I’ve already said as much in this thread
Posted on 2/27/26 at 8:00 am to GeauxBurrow312
quote:Do the math. One of the highest % of GDP committed and the largest GDP. What are you missing?
What do you mean by biggest contributor?
Posted on 2/27/26 at 8:02 am to Diamondawg
quote:
Do the math. One of the highest % of GDP committed and the largest GDP. What are you missing?
You quoted me quoting someone else
Just look at Germany's defense spending since the end of the cold war. Even after 4 years of the Ukraine war, which Europeans insist is a battle of survival, they still have not hit 2% which was agreed on 20 years ago. They are no allies
GDP spending
Posted on 2/27/26 at 8:05 am to GeauxBurrow312
quote:
They won’t back us in Iran
No, but NATO existing will allow us to move assets out of Europe and hold the line with Russia.
Plus we can use our bases in Europe for resupply.
quote:
if it goes down in Taiwan they won’t back us there either
You dont know that, its likely a number of them back us, it also balances Russian and prevents them from being more involved.
Posted on 2/27/26 at 8:17 am to Narax
quote:
No, but NATO existing will allow us to move assets out of Europe and hold the line with Russia.
Russia is of zero consequence to the US at this point. Even if they get a breakthrough on Ukraine, its not like they are going to sweep through Europe, Poland has a stronger military than Ukraine does
Europe collectively dwarves the population and economy of Russia, there is no reason we should need to be there. If they have a security problem, its from their lack of will. I dont see the strategic purpose in subsidizing a group of countries who largely no longer share our values
Posted on 2/27/26 at 8:17 am to TBoy
quote:
The only players who want to dismantle NATO are the enemies of western civilization.
When nato was formed the US/Canada and western Europe were all 90%+ white, Christian countries. It made sense that these countries with similar values and goals should stick together and share in each others destiny.
Now you have probably close to 40% of the people in these countries who came from the 3rd world and don't care about western civilization or share our values and definitely arent interested in preserving whatever it was that nato was originally formed to protect.
My great grandparents in the US had a shared heritage and connection with the people of England and France. Do the south americans in Texas share a similar bond with the middle-easterners in Germany today?
This post was edited on 2/27/26 at 8:19 am
Posted on 2/27/26 at 8:24 am to BuckeyeGoon
This 100%.
What happens to a bunch of progressive atheists and desert dwellers is a them problem. Our economy doesnt rely on Europe, they provide minimal external support to our conflicts. They dont even back us in the UN. Why be entangled there?
I would much rather focus on our alliances with other conservative nations who take their security more seriously and are more vital to the US economy, like Japan and South Korea
What happens to a bunch of progressive atheists and desert dwellers is a them problem. Our economy doesnt rely on Europe, they provide minimal external support to our conflicts. They dont even back us in the UN. Why be entangled there?
I would much rather focus on our alliances with other conservative nations who take their security more seriously and are more vital to the US economy, like Japan and South Korea
Posted on 2/27/26 at 8:27 am to SoFlaGuy
There's absolutely zero reason to stay.
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