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re: Why does the healthcare debate essentially revolve around like 4% of Americans?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 9:59 am to SSpaniel
Posted on 9/21/17 at 9:59 am to SSpaniel
quote:
Gotcha
Apparently not. How else would you try to discern how many people in the US have a pre-existing condition? A door-to-door survey that's invalid without a 100% response rate?
Pretty foolish and expensive study design. We can (and on a daily basis do) do better than that.
2
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:04 am to BamaAtl
well the first major issue is segregating PECs
100% of everyone has a PEC if you define it broadly enough
the PECs that create possible policy responses affect a very small portion of society (given our framework pre-ACA)
100% of everyone has a PEC if you define it broadly enough
the PECs that create possible policy responses affect a very small portion of society (given our framework pre-ACA)
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:30 am to BamaAtl
quote:
A door-to-door survey that's invalid without a 100% response rate?
Wowza! 
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
100% of everyone has a PEC if you define it broadly enough the PECs that create possible policy responses affect a very small portion of society (given our framework pre-ACA)
From Kaiser, 2016:
quote:
Estimates of the Share of Adults with Pre-Existing Conditions
We estimate that 27% of adult Americans under the age of 65 have health conditions that would likely leave them uninsurable if they applied for individual market coverage under pre-ACA underwriting practices that existed in nearly all states. While a large share of this group has coverage through an employer or public coverage where they do not face medical underwriting, these estimates quantify how many people could be ineligible for individual market insurance under pre-ACA practices if they were to ever lose this coverage. This is a conservative estimate as these surveys do not include sufficient detail on several conditions that would have been declinable before the ACA (such as HIV/AIDS, or hepatitis C). Additionally, millions more have other conditions that could be either declinable by some insurers based on their pre-ACA underwriting guidelines or grounds for higher premiums, exclusions, or limitations under pre-ACA underwriting practices. In a separate Kaiser Family Foundation poll, most people (53%) report that they or someone in their household has a pre-existing condition.
KFF -
Medical Underwriting in the individual insurance market prior to the ACA
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:39 am to TigerDoc
It looks like that you agree that BamaSJW's and Obama's claims were a bit over the top at 50% of the US population has pre-existing conditions unless they think a wart removal is eligible for PEC clause.
This is why I have lost some trust in Kaiser as an unbiased resource. They report a "large share" only when they can quantify that number. But doing so would hurt their position so I see why they don't.
ETA: Thanks for making your case for more Federal Gov involvement in our lives without being a BamaSJW.
(that's a compliment)
quote:
While a large share of this group has coverage through an employer or public coverage where they do not face medical underwriting, these estimates quantify how many people could be ineligible for individual market insurance under pre-ACA practices if they were to ever lose this coverage.
This is why I have lost some trust in Kaiser as an unbiased resource. They report a "large share" only when they can quantify that number. But doing so would hurt their position so I see why they don't.
ETA: Thanks for making your case for more Federal Gov involvement in our lives without being a BamaSJW.
(that's a compliment)This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 10:47 am
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:55 am to TigerDoc
I eat a 8 piece fried chicken bucket, large mash taters, and 4 biscuits every day for 10 years. I'm now overweight, have high cholesterol, and a plethora of other health problems.
Why should I be rewarded for my childish and retarded behavior via piggybacking on all the healthy people Cuz muh preexisting conditions. Wahhh. Wahhh. Wahhh.
If you're health problems are caused by YOUR frickING DECISIONS, (as many and more here in America are... We're fricking fat and lazy) then frick YOU.
I'll be for universal Healthcare the day we kill anyone with more than 30% body fat.
Your shite life decisions should not impact my wallet. frick you.
Oh, and obligatory frick you bitchATL. And frick the ACA.
Why should I be rewarded for my childish and retarded behavior via piggybacking on all the healthy people Cuz muh preexisting conditions. Wahhh. Wahhh. Wahhh.
If you're health problems are caused by YOUR frickING DECISIONS, (as many and more here in America are... We're fricking fat and lazy) then frick YOU.
I'll be for universal Healthcare the day we kill anyone with more than 30% body fat.
Your shite life decisions should not impact my wallet. frick you.
Oh, and obligatory frick you bitchATL. And frick the ACA.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:56 am to beerJeep
quote:
I'll be for universal Healthcare the day we kill anyone with more than 30% body fat.
Woah woah woah there guy. Don't you think that's a bit extreme?
We need to take a more moderate approach...like rounding up anyone over 30% body fat and putting them on a fat island for them to die in their fatness.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:57 am to TigerDoc
quote:
We estimate that 27% of adult Americans under the age of 65 have health conditions that would likely leave them uninsurable if they applied for individual market coverage under pre-ACA underwriting practices that existed in nearly all states.
Who cares if almost all of those people are on employer plans that don't give a shite about pre-existing conditions ?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:59 am to Centinel
quote:
We need to take a more moderate approach...like rounding up anyone over 30% body fat and putting them on a fat island for them to die in their fatness.
Fatty fit camp. The new reality TV show. Watch as 500 lard asses survive on coconut husks and drinking underboob sweat as they try to lose enough weight to come back to the main land.
Who will win? Who will die? Check in next week to find out!
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:01 am to beerJeep
quote:
Who will win? Who will die? Check in next week to find out!
That show would make a fortune. Just think about how many people with congenital or genetic health issues that we could take care of?
That should make BamaATL happy right? People with REAL pre-existing conditions are taken care of!
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:01 am to roadGator
I think ~30% is closer to right since that squares with data from AHIP that was actually done contemporaneously pre-ACA. The overall point, though, is that the number is non-trivial. 52 million people by the lower estimate.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:03 am to Centinel
Or how about we enact universal Healthcare (light)
Where you must follow a strict diet and exercise regime. Oh, and you must stay under 20% body fat. The day you get 20.1%, you get expelled from the mainland to join the fatty fat camp island.
Where you must follow a strict diet and exercise regime. Oh, and you must stay under 20% body fat. The day you get 20.1%, you get expelled from the mainland to join the fatty fat camp island.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:03 am to TigerDoc
quote:
52 million people by the lower estimate.
OK. But how many of those covered by group health policies that do not include PEC clauses?
This is the propaganda we must work through if we want to be honest.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:05 am to TigerDoc
How many are actual genetic issues they were born with. And how many are lifestyle choices such as being a fat pile of shite?
I promise you the lard asses with self inflicted "conditions" far outnumber those with "real" preexisting conditions.
I promise you the lard asses with self inflicted "conditions" far outnumber those with "real" preexisting conditions.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:06 am to beerJeep
You guys are going to need a bigger island.
Send those that are non-compliant with their doctor's orders there too.
For instance, a diabetic that doesn't follow treatment plans set by their doctor needs to be on your island.
We are throwing away good money on that person.
Send those that are non-compliant with their doctor's orders there too.
For instance, a diabetic that doesn't follow treatment plans set by their doctor needs to be on your island.
We are throwing away good money on that person.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:12 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Look, I have sympathy for those with pre-existing conditions, but why must they get priority over the 85%+ of Americans who simply want lower premiums and costs?
Late to the thread but two main points.
1) The proposed "fixes" will NOT lower premiums or costs.
2) Have you seen the list of "pre-existing" conditions that insurance companies can use to jack your premiums through the roof if allowed too? I promise you that the number of people who have one or more is WAY more than 4%.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:13 am to roadGator
quote:
You guys are going to need a bigger island.
Good point. You think we could convince Denmark to sell us Greenland?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:14 am to Haughton99
quote:
Have you seen the list of "pre-existing" conditions that insurance companies can use to jack your premiums through the roof if allowed too? I promise you that the number of people who have one or more is WAY more than 4%.
How many of those "preexisting conditions" are self inflicted via shite diet and no exercise?
Awww you weigh 400lbs and have diabetes and 20 other self inflicted conditions?
Only medical treatment they should receive is a lethal dose of pain killer.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:15 am to Centinel
Give them Guam. With the fatties, it will tip over for real this time.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:16 am to Haughton99
quote:
Have you seen the list of "pre-existing" conditions that insurance companies can use to jack your premiums through the roof if allowed too?
Post the list. Make sure it includes the three different categories of PEC conditions. I'll see if it matches what we used.
What percentage of those with PECs are unaffected by PEC clauses?
Why does no liberal want to talk about that? Yeah, yeah, you aren't a liberal. I get it.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 11:25 am
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