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Started By
Message
re: Why does the cake baker allow gay couples to buy his premade cakes?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:54 pm to bmy
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:54 pm to bmy
quote:
so it's not his religious convictions then?
we can't dismiss the possibility that his religious background helped to shape his conscience,
but absolutely, a person's conscience, not their creed, is the core consideration
In fact the U.S. Supreme Court has cited conscience as a proper foundation to support, get this, abortion.
In Planned Parenthood v. Casey (that affirmed Roe vs. Wade), abortion was linked to freedom of conscience. The U.S. Supreme court said, “the abortion decision may originate within the zone of conscience or belief... The destiny of the woman must be shaped to a large extent on her own conception of her spiritual imperatives and her place in society.”
So if abortion can be protected through freedom of conscience, why can't a person's refusal to be part of a gay event?
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 8:41 pm
0
Posted on 12/5/17 at 7:54 pm to bmy
Why would the bible mention gay marriage?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 8:16 pm to roadGator
quote:
Why would the bible mention gay marriage?
no idea. wouldn't make much sense. i think it's just idiot zealots that have made it an issue...
Posted on 12/5/17 at 8:19 pm to bmy
It's a big world. Not everyone needs to be gleeful about two dudes tying their balloon knots.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:10 pm to roadGator
I am a Subway Sandwich Artist.
Am I protected?
heehee
Am I protected?
heehee
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:24 pm to Dale51
quote:
But if it, in fact, was to be a custom cake, then you side with the bakers...right?
Is baking a cake and writing what the customer requests equate to “speech”?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:39 pm to SUB
I would bet my house that most of the folks supporting the baker's right to discriminate based on sexual preference are also of the belief that being homosexual is "wrong". Just a hunch. This whole "private property small government" bs is just like it always is... A guise for picking and choosing what the government should do based on their own sense of what is valuable.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:42 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
picking and choosing what the government should do based on their own sense of what is valuable.
Government endorsement of same sex marriage is exactly this.
Can you not see this?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:44 pm to Tigerdev
I don't know man. He is willing to sell cakes to anyone... But he doesn't want to be forced to make specialized cakes for stuff he has a religious objection to. It's hard to deny it is a sincere religious belief. You may disagree with the belief...but that doesn't make it not sincere So the question is...does his first amendment right get trumped by state laws providing protected class.
From a pure legal standpoint, it is a very interesting and important case. If state protected class status trumps first amendment rights...what is to stop that extending to churches?
You may not care, but that is a legitimate concern.
From a pure legal standpoint, it is a very interesting and important case. If state protected class status trumps first amendment rights...what is to stop that extending to churches?
You may not care, but that is a legitimate concern.
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 10:12 pm
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:48 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
I would bet my house that most of the folks supporting the baker's right to discriminate based on sexual preference are also of the belief that being homosexual is "wrong". Just a hunch. This whole "private property small government" bs is just like it always is... A guise for picking and choosing what the government should do based on their own sense of what is valuable.
Honestly, I think it's ridiculous to not make the cake, and rather he did make the cake so this bullshite didn't go to the SCOTUS. However, I feel it's his right on whether he wants to make a cake for someone or not; yet, you want to put everyone against this into some homophobic bin.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:51 pm to BBONDS25
I have long held the belief that slippery slope arguments are the tool of the enemy. You could have used the same argument to dissent against the Civil Rights Act. It turns out to be a pretty good piece of legislation.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 9:53 pm to HurricaneTiger
I didnt say all. I said most. And if you look at the threads you will so many folks have already admitted to this when pressed.
I believe that posters like BBonds are arguing for private freedom. But ive read many other poster's arguments and that isnt the case once you start talking with them.
I believe that posters like BBonds are arguing for private freedom. But ive read many other poster's arguments and that isnt the case once you start talking with them.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 10:03 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
I have long held the belief that slippery slope arguments are the tool of the enemy. You could have used the same argument to dissent against the Civil Rights Act. It turns out to be a pretty good piece of legislation
Slippery slope isn't even necessary here. Just consider the sincerely held religious beliefs of the baker. Should state protected status trump the 1st Amendment? Yes or no?
Slippery slope only serves to prove the absurdity of the ruling. Forget slippery slope. Can enumerated constitutional protections be trumped by state law? Yes or no?
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 10:12 pm
Posted on 12/5/17 at 10:07 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
does his first amendment right get trumped by state laws providing protected class.
Is making cakes protected “speech”?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 10:07 pm to cwill
quote:
Is making cakes protected “speech”?
Wrong part of the 1st Amendment. I mean really, cwill.
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 12/5/17 at 10:18 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
I didnt say all. I said most. And if you look at the threads you will so many folks have already admitted to this when pressed.
I believe that posters like BBonds are arguing for private freedom. But ive read many other poster's arguments and that isnt the case once you start talking with them.
Yeah, I can see your point. I apologize.
IMO, you shouldn't be forced to do a specialized service for anyone. However, if there is a general service your business provides, you must not discriminate when it comes to that service. How a specialized service is defined would have to be solidified.
I feel any strong rulings either way will be bad overall, and feel this is the most fair to both sides. However, we'll have to see how they view it.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 10:19 pm to BBONDS25
There are two arguments being put forth one is under free exercise and the other under free speech. Frankly, I think they dovetail here.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 10:21 pm to cwill
quote:
free exercise and the other under free speech. Frankly, I think they dovetail here.
How does sincerely held belief dovetail with speech? I was clearly referring to the former in my posts. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I really don't see how speech enters the equation of state protected class trumping sincerely held belief. In willing to hear you out though.
This post was edited on 12/5/17 at 10:22 pm
Posted on 12/5/17 at 10:28 pm to BBONDS25
Making a custom cake is no different than making a plain cake for sale to the general public - he’s not being compelled to “speak”/participate in a gay wedding in violation of his religion...he’s just selling cakes.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 10:37 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Slippery slope isn't even necessary here. Just consider the sincerely held religious beliefs of the baker.
Wait.. I thought it wasn't about religion?
Where in his religious text is it written that gay marriage is wrong/'against his religion'? Sounds like he's just a douchebag to me.
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