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Started By
Message
re: Why do churches get so worked up over gays?
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:17 pm to Pettifogger
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:17 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
highly uncommon
AKA “it didn’t happen”
0
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:20 pm to TigerChief10
In multiple passages, in both the Old and New Testaments, homosexuality is said to be an abomination in the sight of God. As a bible believer, I trust the inerrant word of God, so I believe His word. However, it is not my place to call out or condemn the gay man or woman, as there's plenty of sin in my own life to take to God, and attempt to correct, without pointing out anyone else's real or imagined shortcomings.
However, while I'm not questioning God's word, or His will, I hope one day He will explain things to me from His point of view. Briefly, when I watched Saturday Night Live with RuPaul as the guest host, I remarked to my wife that he seemingly never had a chance to be straight. Probably from his earliest days, at the risk of sounding stereotypical, he likely exhibited gay tendencies. So this is where my human confusion, and questions, come in. Lord, if I'm even able to remember this in your Heaven, please one day explain this to me from your perfect and unassailable point of view.
However, while I'm not questioning God's word, or His will, I hope one day He will explain things to me from His point of view. Briefly, when I watched Saturday Night Live with RuPaul as the guest host, I remarked to my wife that he seemingly never had a chance to be straight. Probably from his earliest days, at the risk of sounding stereotypical, he likely exhibited gay tendencies. So this is where my human confusion, and questions, come in. Lord, if I'm even able to remember this in your Heaven, please one day explain this to me from your perfect and unassailable point of view.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:20 pm to Pettifogger
quote:I think we might be having two different discussions here. You’re obviously leading me in the direction of a point you have to make. What is it? You make points well.
And the centuries preceding said laws where it was highly uncommon for gays to engage in matrimony, religious or civic? What were the marginalizing actions there?
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:23 pm to xiv
quote:False.
Gays weren’t allowed to marry each other in several states less than seven years ago.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:25 pm to ronniep1
quote:The issue of tendencies or proclivities can be best understood more broadly in our fallen nature as human beings. We have proclivities to sin, and sin manifests itself in many ways. Some are inclined to homosexual feelings of lust. Others for heterosexual sexual sins (lust, adultery, fornication, etc.) Some have a proclivity towards drunkenness, theft, gossip, lying, and others towards selfishness, hatred of authority (or rather love of self authority). Everyone has their own sins that they struggle with.
However, while I'm not questioning God's word, or His will, I hope one day He will explain things to me from His point of view. Briefly, when I watched Saturday Night Live with RuPaul as the guest host, I remarked to my wife that he seemingly never had a chance to be straight. Probably from his earliest days, at the risk of sounding stereotypical, he likely exhibited gay tendencies. So this is where my human confusion, and questions, come in. Lord, if I'm even able to remember this in your Heaven, please one day explain this to me from your perfect and unassailable point of view.
The issue at hand is what we should do with those proclivities to sin: do we embrace them in an attempt at self fulfillment and temporary happiness, or do we reject what God has condemned and honor Him as Lord above ourselves and our sinful desires?
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:28 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The issue at hand is what we should do with those proclivities to sin: do we embrace them in an attempt at self fulfillment and temporary happiness, or do we reject what God has condemned and honor Him as Lord above ourselves and our sinful desires?
Very well said
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:32 pm to xiv
quote:
I think we might be having two different discussions here. You’re obviously leading me in the direction of a point you have to make. What is it? You make points well.
It's not really a point, other than to disagree with the idea that active marginalization is a prerequisite to normalization. I would argue that gays were well outside societal/marital norms well before there were any organized efforts to "defend" marriage. I won't pretend that was some completely naturally occurring thing, but the story clearly didn't begin with defense of marriage legislation, either.
There were obviously other factors (electoral strategy) in play, but certainly the defense of marriage rhetoric didn't arise in a society that was free from gays attempting to marry/create a marriage battleground.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:34 pm to the808bass
quote:
That’s because we understood the basic concept of marriage was propagation of the species and society. Now we’re pretending it’s not that at all.
No it wasn't. Fornication existed well before marriage was even considered a thing. Marriage was created as a way for families to combine assets and create more wealth and power. Marriage didn't start out as a religious thing but was instead adopted by religion
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:39 pm to ronniep1
quote:
In multiple passages, in both the Old and New Testaments,
and therein lies the problem.
One God didn't write he bible a bunch of dudes did.
Two The versions you are reading was written by a dude, then another dude translated that from one dead language to another dead language, Then another dude translated that dead language into a modern language.
That is a lot of people who are predisposed to be sinful according to the same bible you speak of to trust they didn't take a few liberties in their work.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:39 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
Marriage didn't start out as a religious thing but was instead adopted by religion
Oh really?
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:42 pm to mindbreaker
quote:There is no problem with the Bible. There does appear to be a problem with you.
and therein lies the problem
quote:Do you understand how the Bible was transmitted? It appears that you don't.
One God didn't write he bible a bunch of dudes did.
quote:Do you understand how the Bible is translated? It appears that you don't.
Two The versions you are reading was written by a dude, then another dude translated that from one dead language to another dead language, Then another dude translated that dead language into a modern language.
quote:You assume the Bible is just like any typical written work, don't you?
That is a lot of people who are predisposed to be sinful according to the same bible you speak of to trust they didn't take a few liberties in their work.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:46 pm to Pettifogger
quote:Ahh, I see. Well I used marginalized specifically because people being assholes to gays isn’t the only thing afoot. Gays are marginalized by their biology and by population demographics. Having a family is something virtually everyone wants, and that’s harder for gays to have that than it is for the rest of us. Therefore, gays are marginalized even if homophobia doesn’t exist.
active marginalization
quote:Pardon me if I’m off-base, and not to oversimplify your nuanced point, but I’m hearing “the gays started it.”
I won't pretend that was some completely naturally occurring thing, but the story clearly didn't begin with defense of marriage legislation, either.
There were obviously other factors (electoral strategy) in play, but certainly the defense of marriage rhetoric didn't arise in a society that was free from gays attempting to marry/create a marriage battleground.
Two gay men: We’d like to get married. May we fill out an application for a marriage license?
Clerk: No. You’re two men. You can’t marry each other.
The battleground is created by the government in this case.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:49 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
Marriage was created as a way for families to combine assets and create more wealth and power.
So only landowners got married?
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:51 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
Two The versions you are reading was written by a dude, then another dude translated that from one dead language to another dead language, Then another dude translated that dead language into a modern language.
You just failed Textual Criticism 101. There’s a remedial section that may open soon.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:54 pm to kingbob
quote:
Indulging in anything to excess is considered sinful. Where’s the specific condemnation for alcohol?
There's a whole lot. Here's a few for you:
quote:
Galatians 5:19–21: The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: ... drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:18: Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery.
Proverbs 20:1: Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.
Galations 5:21: Envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:56 pm to xiv
quote:
Having a family is something virtually everyone wants
Gays don’t, oddly enough. As of 2017, ~90% of them weren’t married. Despite 60% of cohabiting gays being married. Which suggests they don’t particularly even care to cohabit.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:58 pm to Old Sarge
quote:
Does your conviction go as far as defending the rights of a Christian florist or baker?
You damn right it does. A private owned company should have the right to follow their beliefs. My tax dollars are not being used to run the company so if they don't want to make me a cake I should move on and find someone that does. I don't want you to force your beliefs down my throat so why should I have the right to force my down yours!
Posted on 2/17/20 at 3:03 pm to SOSFAN
Posted on 2/17/20 at 3:05 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
ou assume the Bible is just like any typical written work, don't you?
It is. that isn't an assumption that is a fact. any claim otherwise in a assumption
Posted on 2/17/20 at 3:06 pm to the808bass
quote:
So only landowners got married?
At first yep. Or they arranged marriages between their kids.
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