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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:14 am to TrueTiger
quote:
It’s brilliant.
How so? Because he acts like it’s profound? Besides the fact that he uses a straw man argument, it also doesn’t really relate to the post that prompted you to post it.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:18 am to Mo Jeaux
Atheism takes as much faith as theism.
Just like hate takes as much effort as love.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:22 am to TrueTiger
quote:
Atheism takes as much faith as theism.
This is what I was referring to. It really doesn’t. This is just something that believers tell themselves for comfort. And I say this as someone who is not an atheist.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:24 am to lepdagod
I think you missed the point. Unless you wanted to restate the position to devolve the conversation.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:26 am to VooDude
Conservative values resemble many or most of the values in the Bible
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:26 am to RoyalWe
quote:
I think you missed the point.
I think that you missed his point.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:32 am to Mo Jeaux
He just supplied the opposing viewpoint that’s already been stated. Is there another point he was making? Please advise.
EDIT: And just to be clear, if I grant completely that 'humans experience sympathy and empathy without religion', it still doesn't answer the question of where morality comes from or what makes something morally true.
Empathy is an emotion/capacity. It isn't a moral standard. You're mixing two different questions.
Humans appear to possess natural moral capacities, but those capacities are neither uniform, complete, nor reliably governing. We can recognize moral rules without wanting to obey them. We can feel compassion in one circumstance and suppress it in another. We can rationalize conduct we know is wrong, and, in unusual cases, understand another person's suffering while scarcely being emotionally troubled by it.
The question you should be asking yourself is this:
Why do humans seem to possess a sense of what they ought to do while simultaneously possess such an extraordinary capacity not to do it?
EDIT: And just to be clear, if I grant completely that 'humans experience sympathy and empathy without religion', it still doesn't answer the question of where morality comes from or what makes something morally true.
Empathy is an emotion/capacity. It isn't a moral standard. You're mixing two different questions.
Humans appear to possess natural moral capacities, but those capacities are neither uniform, complete, nor reliably governing. We can recognize moral rules without wanting to obey them. We can feel compassion in one circumstance and suppress it in another. We can rationalize conduct we know is wrong, and, in unusual cases, understand another person's suffering while scarcely being emotionally troubled by it.
The question you should be asking yourself is this:
Why do humans seem to possess a sense of what they ought to do while simultaneously possess such an extraordinary capacity not to do it?
This post was edited on 8/29/26 at 11:52 am
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:33 am to dgnx6
quote:
Anyone who truly has a biblical world view shouldn't be voting for false idols anyway.
What does this mean to you?
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:34 am to VooDude
I am atheist and have been conservative forever. I think we're a lot more common than people think
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:36 am to VooDude
quote:
EDIT/ UPDATE: YOU’RE RIGHT OKAY, IT’S ROMAN AND NOT CHRISTIAN VALUES THAT WE SEEK SINCE CHRISTIANITY IS BASED OFF ROMAN VALUES.
You made your previously moronic post exponentially moronic with this edit. SMH.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:56 am to FooManChoo
quote:
It's claiming that morality is either grounded in objective realities or it is not. If it is not, then it is arbitrary, and therefore, irrational at its core.
True… one’s morality is arbitrary by definition… doesn’t mean it irrational…
quote:
Morality has to be grounded in something other than consequences, because even in society, the consequences flow from an existing belief of an action being moral or immoral. We choose to punish certain behaviors because we already believe they are bad. You can't say they are bad because of the consequences.
I disagree with this premise… consequences in a society doesn’t come from an action being deemed moral or immoral rather right or wrong… no one considers not being taxes “immoral “ per se … yet we all pay our taxes because of the consequences of no paying them
quote:
If [negative] consequences are what one cares about, then morality is whatever is right in your own mind that you can act upon without receiving negative consequences. If you can get away with murder, then murder is moral.
No… a murderer getting away with murder doesn’t mean that said murderer believes murder is moral…
quote:
All you're saying is that whatever the majority says, goes, in terms of morality. T
I’m saying the exact opposite actually… I don’t believe the Nazis or slave owners you mention believed they were standing on the moral high ground… and if they did that proves my point even more of morals being arbitrary…
quote:
if morality is not grounded in an objective standard, then it's arbitrary at its core
Of course morals are arbitrary at their core … what’s exactly the objective standard ???… right and wrong are innate qualities… morality is not
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:57 am to RoyalWe
quote:
I think you missed the point. Unless you wanted to restate the position to devolve the conversation.
No… I understood the “point” … I think you missed mines
Posted on 8/29/26 at 11:59 am to lepdagod
quote:Sigh. I asked for clarification. Instead I get the nanny nanny boo boo treatment. I award you no points.
I think you missed mines
Posted on 8/29/26 at 12:05 pm to lepdagod
lepdagod, when you say something is "wrong," what exactly are you claiming?
Suppose I say: "Torturing a child purely for amusement is wrong."
Does that mean:
A) "I personally dislike it."
B) "Most people in my society dislike it."
C) "Evolution has predisposed humans to dislike it."
D) "Societies function better when we prohibit it."
E) "It is actually wrong regardless of whether I, the torturer, or society approves of it."
Suppose I say: "Torturing a child purely for amusement is wrong."
Does that mean:
A) "I personally dislike it."
B) "Most people in my society dislike it."
C) "Evolution has predisposed humans to dislike it."
D) "Societies function better when we prohibit it."
E) "It is actually wrong regardless of whether I, the torturer, or society approves of it."
Posted on 8/29/26 at 12:24 pm to RoyalWe
quote:
Suppose I say: "Torturing a child purely for amusement is wrong."
E) "It is actually wrong regardless of whether I, the torturer, or society approves of it."
Posted on 8/29/26 at 12:28 pm to RoyalWe
quote:
Sigh. I asked for clarification. Instead I get the nanny nanny boo boo treatment. I award you no points.
Did you ask for clarification???… you just paraphrased 2 Corinthians 3:3 somewhat… that specifies “believers “
… what if one does not believe is sympathy and empathy not innate to that individual??
Posted on 8/29/26 at 12:31 pm to lepdagod
By choosing "E", you agreed that at least some moral statements are objectively true -- that something can actually be wrong regardless of whether the individual or society approves of it. I'm glad we can agree on that.
What makes it objectively wrong?
A) "Because humans innately know it's wrong."
B) "Because empathy tells us."
C) "Because it harms people."
D) "Because society cannot function otherwise."
E) "Because evolution gave us those instincts."
F) Something else. Please explain.
What makes it objectively wrong?
A) "Because humans innately know it's wrong."
B) "Because empathy tells us."
C) "Because it harms people."
D) "Because society cannot function otherwise."
E) "Because evolution gave us those instincts."
F) Something else. Please explain.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 12:32 pm to lepdagod
quote:
E) "It is actually wrong regardless of whether I, the torturer, or society approves of it."
Why?
What higher authority are you appealing to above “society”?
Posted on 8/29/26 at 12:32 pm to lepdagod
quote:My bad. I asked it of Mo Jeaux since he interjected himself.
Did you ask for clarification???
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