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Started By
Message
2
Posted on 10/3/23 at 7:55 am to VolSquatch
quote:And what’s the incentive to do all of that?
The government says we are going to pay X towards Y procedure. Some clinics will get their costs down so that patients have Y procedure completely (or almost completely) covered. Other clinics say "Hey, we employ great doctors. We have better facilities. We have lower wait times. We can charge more." so they advertise to customers saying exactly those things.
Also, the private contractor model has definately led to efficiencies in the defense industry.
quote:
]The government isn't setting which services or offered or how they are offered.
they already are doing this under Obamacare. You’re think k thst universal care will cause the government to be less meddling in the care options required/offered? Pass that isht to the left. You’ve got the good stuff! quote:
I'm not going to try to convince anyone that it would be a better system day 1, but we also don't have that great of a system now.
Nothing like trying to argue for the merits of a system, by not arguing the system has merit. This post was edited on 10/3/23 at 7:58 am
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:14 am to VolSquatch
quote:
The way it could work (if set up correctly)
It's the government. It won't be set up correctly.
quote:
government is the sole insurance provider
Code for government controlling your healthcare. Government shows up with a gun and a badge. If they won't reimburse, then it won't be provided.
quote:
You'd pay probably the same amount you do for your current insurance, maybe a little less
You'd pay more. Government is the least efficient thing in society.
quote:
but if you go to the doctor for most things its completely covered
Everything would get more expensive because the absolute minimum amount of care would be billed at the maximum rate of reimbursement by default. No negotiation, no market. The entire historical record of costs and percentage of government spending as part of the whole of healthcare expenditures, is proof of this.
quote:
I think you would then see some hospitals brand themselves as "premium providers" with lower wait times, better doctors, etc, but you pay some out of pocket. For some things you're paying out of pocket for at least part of it either way.
You are grossly underestimating the government's proclivity to get involved and manipulate things. Once you said "better doctors"...just think of how that would be manipulated by these idiots in DC.
quote:
In this scenario the government isn't trying to make a buck off this like insurance companies, the program just needs to sustain itself. Since there isn't a profit being taken out in the middle, costs will go down.
Literally laughed out loud. Campaign donations, government contracts, mandatory vaccine orders, screenings etc, all for kickbacks in the way of campaign donations - everyone would get screwed except DC. They would profit massively at our expense.
quote:
Obviously it only works if you don't go granting mass citizenship to anyone who walks across the border. Full blown citizens only, the rest pay out of pocket.
100% agree.
quote:
If we cut some of the bloat and secure the border, I think some version of that is absolutely doable in order to take care of our own citizens.
Secure the border and return healthcare to the free market.
quote:
You literally can't just give out healthcare to anyone who comes here
Agree
quote:
I also think its unacceptable for people in the wealthiest nation ever to be going bankrupt because of a cancer diagnosis.
Wealthiest nation ever is not so much of a selling point for your position, but I get it. You have to accept the fact that some of us in society will experience some things that are devastating because things are mostly relative. There is no utopia, there is no perfection. In no way do I want us to accept the status quo, but we have to face reality in that bad things happen and sometimes they cost a ton of money. Wealth is a relative thing, so we'll never get rid of this state of affairs. That said, I want a system that minimizes this without intruding on freedom. More government involvement is the opposite.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:14 am to POTUS2024
quote:Did you click the link in my first response? Medicine should be like anything else, price & quality competitive. Currently, for the most part, it's price-fixed. Meaning the best and worst surgeons in the country get reimbursed identically to perform the same surgery. That is done under auspices of "saving money."
You tell me. If I show up to your office and I have cash, and I'm sick - what then?
Because charges are fixed, the Feds decided the best way to limit cost was to limit the number of MDs being trained. So they went so far as to pay programs to cut back residency slots. Brilliant, eh?
So, for actual price competition to work, we need more training programs, not less.
E.g., The Oklahoma Surgical Center competes with standard Hospitals by using up-front, capitated charges, and cash payment. Patients then collect insurance payments to reimburse themselves. The cost is roughly 1/2 what standard hospitals charge.
Your cash plan would work. The system it would fund is a problem.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:16 am to VolSquatch
quote:
I'm not going to try to convince anyone that it would be a better system day 1, but we also don't have that great of a system now
Whats this "we" shite?
I get tired of this faux collective concern.
This post was edited on 10/3/23 at 8:17 am
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:17 am to VolSquatch
quote:So is CMS, the model you would make universal. I guess that fact flew right over your head.
eah and food stamps are at least in theory supposed to be limited to those that need them
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:19 am to POTUS2024
quote:Its the opposite actually. We did t get to be the most successful by being like everybody else. Just like Elon Musk didn’t get rich by taking a job at as a retail stock broker “like everybody else”.
Wealthiest nation ever is not so much of a selling point for your position
Being l”like everybody else” is a one way ticket to mediocrity. Not success.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:21 am to VolSquatch
quote:
Yeah, it does.
A sufficient system would preclude the need to visit another system for the same purpose.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:21 am to dakarx
quote:
Maybe if we quit sending our money to other countries all the time? Ukraine topping the list, but the list goes on for miles.
Foreign aid comprises .7% of the federal budget.
That's ALL foreign aid.
The Ukraine aid on top of the normal .7% might push that number up to triple normal, which would put it around 2% of the federal budget.
It's a non-factor. Y'all are sheeple parroting a narrative on this Ukraine aid shrillness.
Want to make a difference? Cut Medicare/SS. That's really about all you're going to be able to cut that's going to free up any significant amount of funds. You could try the military, but that runs a distant third.
Plus, when we stop sending money to Ukraine and Putin wins and keeps going, we'll be obligated to help defend the next country he invades (which he will) with troops on the ground.
So I wouldn't advise cutting the military. We're going to need it.
This post was edited on 10/3/23 at 8:22 am
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:41 am to RaoulDuke504
quote:
So if Universal healthcare is the answer and we are backwards to be without it. How can we not afford to do it within the current budget that so many other nations can?
France 12.8% GDP to Healthcare
German 12.8% GDP to Healthcare
Norway 10% GDP to Healthcare
The United States spends 18.3% GDP to Healthcare
I used to work for the Veterans Health Administration as a geographer at VA Central Office out of DC, and my work consisted of calculating drive time and distance for our enrollees to have access to care thru the use of contract care, care in the community, and brick and mortar solutions. As others have mentioned, not having a homogenous population does play a part but the larger obstacle those countries you listed don't face that we do, is our vast rural and highly rural areas of the country along with how much larger the US is than those countries you listed. Universal Care would be great for those living in urban and suburban communities but for the rural and highly rural communities they'd be paying into a system that they don't have the same accessibility to. It would be like forcing highly rural voters to fund subways in a large city they don't live in.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:53 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Did you click the link in my first response?
Yes.
Transparent pricing is what this plan would bring about. Competition, freedom. But the plan I propose is a bit superior to the OK center. Insurance would not be involved at all, unless you deliberately wanted to involve your insurance provider.
quote:
Medicine should be like anything else, price & quality competitive.
Agree. That's what this program does.
quote:
Currently, for the most part, it's price-fixed. Meaning the best and worst surgeons in the country get reimbursed identically to perform the same surgery. That is done under auspices of "saving money."
Understood.
quote:
Because charges are fixed, the Feds decided the best way to limit cost was to limit the number of MDs being trained. So they went so far as to pay programs to cut back residency slots. Brilliant, eh?
This program increases allotments for training to get more through the pipeline. Don't forget the AMA's role in this, as they throttle med school accreditation and the number of graduates. Congress capped resident funding so that's a problem. For this program...The numbers for the pipeline have coverage to increase medical residents to 250,000 from about 145,000, and med students from 100,000 to 250,000. And there is more room in the funding forecast, if these numbers are not sufficient to meet needs.
quote:
So, for actual price competition to work, we need more training programs, not less.
There is nothing in the program that would lessen training. It's the opposite.
quote:
Your cash plan would work. The system it would fund is a problem.
Yes, the cash part would work. Agree.
Not sure why you think it would fund a problematic system. There's more allotted funding for training than is currently out there. Payment is similar to the OK hospital but better in that payment is upfront for all parties and there is no insurance to sort through if you don't want to mess with insurance. This program is actually more flexible.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:57 am to AgSGT
quote:
I used to work for the Veterans Health Administration as a geographer at VA Central Office out of DC, and my work consisted of calculating drive time and distance for our enrollees to have access to care thru the use of contract care, care in the community, and brick and mortar solutions. As others have mentioned, not having a homogenous population does play a part but the larger obstacle those countries you listed don't face that we do, is our vast rural and highly rural areas of the country along with how much larger the US is than those countries you listed. Universal Care would be great for those living in urban and suburban communities but for the rural and highly rural communities they'd be paying into a system that they don't have the same accessibility to. It would be like forcing highly rural voters to fund subways in a large city they don't live in.
I worked in a VA research office in Florida. We had some people doing this stuff, the calculations on distance etc. The stuff you mention is a real issue in the VA.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:59 am to POTUS2024
Where did you work? I was in Gainesville but our office was a field unit based out VACO in DC.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:07 am to POTUS2024
You didn't work in the Commerce Building there in Gainesville did you?
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:08 am to AgSGT
quote:
Where did you work? I was in Gainesville but our office was a field unit based out VACO in DC.
I was in Gainesville in the office within the Chamber of Commerce building.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:09 am to RaoulDuke504
quote:
Why can't the US have univeral healtcare with the current budget?
Too many fat people
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:11 am to POTUS2024
quote:
I was in Gainesville in the office within the Chamber of Commerce building.
I worked upstairs from y'all for about a decade in the PSSG and worked with your office quite often. Usually Eric was my counterpart in your office. I'm in Missouri now but small world to bump into you online
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:12 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Correct. Big Pharma simply facilitated the fed's request, as did hospitals and docs. Dumping all blame on pharma companies is atomic level obfuscation.
Currently, 71% of preventable opioid deaths occur among those ages 25 to 54,
How old do you have to be to qualify for Medicare? 65?
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:13 am to POTUS2024
quote:That is/was CMS, not the AMA. It's a common misconception. The AMA actually opposed cutting MD numbers. The AMA is the CPT culprit though.
Don't forget the AMA's role in this, as they throttle med school accreditation and the number of graduates.
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:16 am to RaoulDuke504
At this point it’s openly admitted that money/budgeting, accounting at the National level is really just a fiction. It’s just a system so ingrained into our collective mental conditioning we still follow it.
Just like wampum, money is just a type of measure for common use. Like the metric vs imperial system of measures.
Understanding the principles of Supply and Demand, which most lack, is what really matters. Can function in any system no matter the measurements that way.
Just like wampum, money is just a type of measure for common use. Like the metric vs imperial system of measures.
Understanding the principles of Supply and Demand, which most lack, is what really matters. Can function in any system no matter the measurements that way.
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