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1
Posted on 4/25/25 at 11:59 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Someone who is quoting the treaty without the rest of the context mentioned itt.
Outside of an April Fools joke, what context can make the statement that "the United States government is not founded on the Christian religion" not mean that the United States government is not founded on the Christian religion?
This post was edited on 4/26/25 at 12:01 am
Posted on 4/26/25 at 12:14 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
Have you ever read Daniel 3?
Yes, hell I've even seen it remade into a cartoon with little vegetables acting it out. It's a great example, they stuck to gods word and submitted to the kings rule and god saved them. They didn't lead a rebellion against a king over raising taxes.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 12:23 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
apparently, you aren't interested in reading the articles that have been cited itt. It would help to answer your question
As I said, in general, the FF viewed america as Christians governing Christians in a Christian manner
It has already been mentioned that they went to church services in government buildings. Why does that not register with you?
I asked which specific Christian belief we were founded on. I'm just looking for a single one. Your dodging the question and basing your analysis on blog posts from Christian websites.... The question I asked was simple, give me the specific Christian belief(s) we were founded upon. Not a hard question I wouldn't think since it's so obvious to you that we were founded on them.
quote:
asked you about the Danbury letter.
I'm familiar with them yes. They don't state any Christian beliefs were founded upon that I'm aware of though....
Posted on 4/26/25 at 8:59 am to somethingdifferent
“historically false”
do you care to elaborate?
do you care to elaborate?
Posted on 4/26/25 at 10:09 am to Gordy
quote:
You are not God and far from a judge in Christ's court. You have no clue just like any of us what Trump's Relationship is with Christ. Yes he is a sinner just like all of us but that doesn't make him a non believer. I hope you don't claim yourself to be a Christian if so you really need to get back into your Bible.
I'm not judging him in that sense. I have no authority to do anything to Trump but I can tell by the fruit of his actions, his god is closer to money than it is to Jesus Christ specifically. It's beyond obvious. Like I said, not a bad thing. Everybody picks their own higher power. It seems to work very well for him.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 10:14 am to oklahogjr
quote:you might want to read that again because this is exactly the opposite of what happened and there's a reason why I'm bringing this story up
submitted to the kings rule
Posted on 4/26/25 at 10:17 am to oklahogjr
quote:and I responded to this. Would you like for me to repeat my previous response?
I asked which specific Christian belief we were founded on
quote:It's been answered itt
Your dodging the question
quote:it took you several posts to get to the genetic fallacy. Congrats I guess?
basing your analysis on blog posts from Christian websites
quote:That was a comment regarding the establishment clause specfically
They don't state any Christian beliefs were founded upon
Posted on 4/26/25 at 10:17 am to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:you mean other than what's already been stated?
do you care to elaborate?
Posted on 4/26/25 at 10:41 am to the808bass
quote:
Freedom of religion isn’t anything close to our modern definition of “separation of church and state.”
This thread is all over the place. First the US is founded as a Christian nation, then Trump is shown as a standup Christian, then freedom of religion suddenly doesn't mean there's a prohibition on state religion.
Carry on.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 11:20 am to somethingdifferent
quote:tell me the story form your perspective what happened to 3 brothers? Did they not stick to their faith and allow the king to put them in the furnace? Did they gather up fellow countrymen and overthrow the king or did they convince the king gods real through a miracle? I don't remember them overthrowing the king or separating a part of his kingdom off for themselves.
you might want to read that again because this is exactly the opposite of what happened and there's a reason why I'm bringing this story up
It's always the same story with this discussion there's not a discussion to be had as I'm asking questions and discussing details however you're just avoiding .y question. Please give a direct answer on the Christian beliefs were founded on... As well as a direct reply how you're interpreting this story.
Otherwise it's kinda pointless
This post was edited on 4/26/25 at 11:33 am
Posted on 4/26/25 at 11:22 am to theballguy
quote:
I'm not judging him in that sense. I have no authority to do anything to Trump but I can tell by the fruit of his actions, his god is closer to money than it is to Jesus Christ specifically. It's beyond obvious. Like I said, not a bad thing. Everybody picks their own higher power. It seems to work very well for him.
It would be easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than trump make it to heaven- Jesus
Posted on 4/26/25 at 1:09 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
It would be easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than trump make it to heaven- Jesus
But with God, all things are possible.
Posted on 4/26/25 at 1:13 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
It would be easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than trump make it to heaven- Jesus
You really should try to figure out what Jesus was saying and about whom he was saying it. Being smug while making a complete fool of yourself is an interesting strategy.
This post was edited on 4/26/25 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 4/26/25 at 11:53 pm to oklahogjr
quote:You said they committed to the king's rule. They absolutely did not do that.
Did they not stick to their faith and allow the king to put them in the furnace?
The point is - in one place, the Bible says to obey the leaders. In another place, it recounts people who defied the leader. Care to guess why?
You brought up that Christians are to submit to their leaders (partly true), ostensibly referring to the fact that they rebelled against the crown which I guess in your mind shows that the country was not founded on Christian beliefs. You're getting this wrong from step 1 which is leading to your customary bad takes
Posted on 4/27/25 at 12:32 am to Azkiger
Im not saying this one way or the other in terms of Trump's relationship with Christ....
I've seen Christians do worse. I've even read about it.... in the Bible.
quote:
he hugged and kissed an LGBTQ flag on national TV a few years ago.
I've seen Christians do worse. I've even read about it.... in the Bible.
Posted on 4/27/25 at 12:43 am to oklahogjr
quote:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
I always struggled with that because it seems so cut and dry. Always obey authorities. right. but then you're like.... Paul wrote this before being arrested multiple times for..... disobeying authorities.. God's law supercedes mans law, but we are still SUBJECT to mans authority on earth.
Posted on 4/27/25 at 1:04 am to the808bass
it also forbid the government from establishing a religion.
“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”
You have a freedom
to exercise your religion, and the government can’t establish a national religion.
Christianity is a religion.
“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”
You have a freedom
to exercise your religion, and the government can’t establish a national religion.
Christianity is a religion.
Posted on 4/27/25 at 8:49 am to tgerb8
quote:exactly. The believer is to obey authorities up to the point that the believer is forced to do something immoral or let something immoral happen. When the latter is the case, believers are to take a stand morally which can include active resistance. That is why the brothers in Daniel 3 did not obey. In that particular case, they passively resisted
God's law supercedes mans law, but we are still SUBJECT to mans authority on earth
If I understand hog's contention correctly, the colonists resisted the crown in founding the new country which ostensibly shows that they acted unbiblically/immorally. However, we know that the redcoats were entering people's homes and having their way. Believers are no doubt morally justified in standing up against that. Fathers/husbands are tasked with protecting the family.
As for the taxation without representation aspect, the colonists knew full well that if they didn't stand up for their liberty, the authorities would force them to worship a certain way which is absolutely one of the biggest reasons why the colonists left Europe in the first place.
Posted on 4/27/25 at 9:24 am to somethingdifferent
In Augustine’s development of Just War Theory (developed even more fully by the Protestant Reformers) rebellion against unlawful rulers can happen from lesser magistrates who have a duty to uphold the moral law against greater magistrates who are violating it. Therefore as the lesser magistrates rebel, the citizenry can follow after them instead of the greater, such as joining with colonial governments against the King.
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