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Message
What's a sensible solution to the Ukraine/Russia conflict?
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:00 pm
I find it rather interesting the Europeans have a shite show in their backyard and for some dubious reasons the DC LWO Uniparty and EU believe it's the United States responsibility to support and arm Ukraine and risk a nuclear war to punish Russia for invading Ukraine.
How many know the US interfered in the 2014 Ukraine election? The information is out there if you can sift through Google"s rigged algorithm search engine to find the truth. There is a piece from the Cato Institute that details the involvement of the Obama administration's role in shaping the political landscape in Ukraine during the 2014 election that's pretty damning but it's all water under the bridge.
What we need now is a sensible solution to a conflict that was 100% avoidable. We also need to identify the primary factors that pulled the Ukrainians and Russians into a military conflict.......here's my top three.
1) These people have been at each other's throats for centuries and I really don't care why, maybe it's just a cultural thing with some boundary disputes thrown in for good measure.
2) The eastern boundary of Ukraine (Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia) leans towards Russian culture and influence and unbeknownst to many around 90% of Crimeans identify more with Russian culture than Ukrainian culture, as a matter of fact there was a vote in Crimea to see what percentage of the population favored being part of the Russian Federation and it was like 97% sided with the Russian Federation.
3) The West and particularly the US have been meddling in Ukraine since the early 90's trying to establish a pro western firewall on Russia's western border, with rumors of adding Ukraine to NATO......Russia don't like that shite!
I understand there are other reason for this conflict but it's time to get a solution rather than believing hundreds of billions of dollars of US military weapons and equipment can solve this meat grinder.
My soulution from a dumb street level hayseed is .....
Draft an agreement that contains the following guarantees.
1) Make a provision for a border corridor (size/boundaries TBD) from Russia through eastern Ukraine to the Black Sea for economic and restricted military purposes, essentially access to Crimea/Black Sea, maybe this corridor could be considered a neutral zone for both countries? Yes the details could be tricky.
2) Leave Crimea as part of the Russian Federation....they want to be part of Russia.
3) The US pulls out of NATO, the EU and NATO can decide if they want to add Ukraine, Finland, Sweden, etc. If the US is out of NATO I believe the Russians will not feel nearly as threatened by NATO/EU.
The MIC won't like my suggestion for pulling out of NATO....too bad, NATO is a money making machine for the MIC.....and Americans will quit bitching about NATO members not paying their 2% of GDP.
The US needs to focus on Central and South America, as we flounder around the world militarily the CCP is gaining serious influence in Central and South America. We can't afford to have the CCP firmly established and influencing political and economic policies in our backyard. At the same time we need to purge US STEM universities of CCP students. There should also be a purge of government bureaucrats and politicians with known connections to CCP money/businesses.
How many know the US interfered in the 2014 Ukraine election? The information is out there if you can sift through Google"s rigged algorithm search engine to find the truth. There is a piece from the Cato Institute that details the involvement of the Obama administration's role in shaping the political landscape in Ukraine during the 2014 election that's pretty damning but it's all water under the bridge.
What we need now is a sensible solution to a conflict that was 100% avoidable. We also need to identify the primary factors that pulled the Ukrainians and Russians into a military conflict.......here's my top three.
1) These people have been at each other's throats for centuries and I really don't care why, maybe it's just a cultural thing with some boundary disputes thrown in for good measure.
2) The eastern boundary of Ukraine (Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia) leans towards Russian culture and influence and unbeknownst to many around 90% of Crimeans identify more with Russian culture than Ukrainian culture, as a matter of fact there was a vote in Crimea to see what percentage of the population favored being part of the Russian Federation and it was like 97% sided with the Russian Federation.
3) The West and particularly the US have been meddling in Ukraine since the early 90's trying to establish a pro western firewall on Russia's western border, with rumors of adding Ukraine to NATO......Russia don't like that shite!
I understand there are other reason for this conflict but it's time to get a solution rather than believing hundreds of billions of dollars of US military weapons and equipment can solve this meat grinder.
My soulution from a dumb street level hayseed is .....
Draft an agreement that contains the following guarantees.
1) Make a provision for a border corridor (size/boundaries TBD) from Russia through eastern Ukraine to the Black Sea for economic and restricted military purposes, essentially access to Crimea/Black Sea, maybe this corridor could be considered a neutral zone for both countries? Yes the details could be tricky.
2) Leave Crimea as part of the Russian Federation....they want to be part of Russia.
3) The US pulls out of NATO, the EU and NATO can decide if they want to add Ukraine, Finland, Sweden, etc. If the US is out of NATO I believe the Russians will not feel nearly as threatened by NATO/EU.
The MIC won't like my suggestion for pulling out of NATO....too bad, NATO is a money making machine for the MIC.....and Americans will quit bitching about NATO members not paying their 2% of GDP.
The US needs to focus on Central and South America, as we flounder around the world militarily the CCP is gaining serious influence in Central and South America. We can't afford to have the CCP firmly established and influencing political and economic policies in our backyard. At the same time we need to purge US STEM universities of CCP students. There should also be a purge of government bureaucrats and politicians with known connections to CCP money/businesses.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:07 pm to Bass Tiger
Quit giving them money, arms, equipment, etc and it will be over in no time.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:07 pm to Bass Tiger
Putin won't talk or stop until the entire Ukrainian army is wiped out. Biden put Putin in this position. Putin has no other choice now.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:09 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Quit giving them money, arms, equipment, etc and it will be over in no time.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:12 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Quit giving them money, arms, equipment, etc and it will be over in no time.
As long as the US is the big dog in NATO we will be on the hook militarily and financially for these types of conflicts. How much could the US military budget shrink if we pulled out of NATO?
This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:14 pm to Bass Tiger
There were really three pieces IMO.
I think most people agree giving Crimea back was never going to happen.
We can go back and forth all day over the NATO neutrality thing. Sure, Ukraine has a right to do what it wants. But, a lot of people have known for 20-30 years that was basically a red line for Russia.
The thing I'm not could ever have been resolved without a fight was Donbass. I don't really know who's responsible for Minsk II not working. Merkel and Hollande have basically said it was all BS meant to stall and build up Ukraine, so Russia has a decent argument that they were fooled. But, I don't know that it justifies invasion, either. I think Zelensky legitimately wanted peace there, but the nazi crazies wouldn't let that happen.
I think most people agree giving Crimea back was never going to happen.
We can go back and forth all day over the NATO neutrality thing. Sure, Ukraine has a right to do what it wants. But, a lot of people have known for 20-30 years that was basically a red line for Russia.
The thing I'm not could ever have been resolved without a fight was Donbass. I don't really know who's responsible for Minsk II not working. Merkel and Hollande have basically said it was all BS meant to stall and build up Ukraine, so Russia has a decent argument that they were fooled. But, I don't know that it justifies invasion, either. I think Zelensky legitimately wanted peace there, but the nazi crazies wouldn't let that happen.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:18 pm to The Maj
Putin is ill and dies will end it
Biden caused this mess with his shady dealings in the country as VP
Biden caused this mess with his shady dealings in the country as VP
This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:30 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:Demilitarize the Donbass region for two years.
What's a sensible solution to the Ukraine/Russia conflict?
Deliver a shipment of Quadrotriticale to each of the two local factions.
Award the territory to the faction with the best crop yield
Posted on 2/2/23 at 1:48 pm to Bass Tiger
Russia leaving Ukraine and allowing Ukraine to dictate their own country. Like what was decided in 1991.
This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 2/2/23 at 2:02 pm to sta4ever
all tony blinken had to say before the war started was "we respect russia's security concerns and we will never allow ukraine in NATO." that alone would have done it.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 2:08 pm to texas tortilla
quote:
all tony blinken had to say before the war started was "we respect russia's security concerns and we will never allow ukraine in NATO." that alone would have done it.
It certainly could have been a starting point, the contested eastern border between Ukraine and Russia also needed to be addressed but that is going to be more difficult now that Russia has occupied those regions.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 2:58 pm to Chief One Word
quote:
Putin won't talk or stop until the entire Ukrainian army is wiped out. Biden put Putin in this position. Putin has no other choice now.
That's not a popular opinion, but I agree with you 100%.
Think Vlad is just going to say "Meh, we did enough damage, let's go home for some goulash now". Not a chance.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 3:17 pm to Bass Tiger
Make Crimea independent. They voted for that too. There already is a bridge linking Crimea directly to Russia.
Looks like Putin thought he could kick the Ukraine door in and setup a Russian puppet in a couple of weeks.
https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/
People don't forget that kind of recent history.
Looks like Putin thought he could kick the Ukraine door in and setup a Russian puppet in a couple of weeks.
quote:
Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide?
https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/
People don't forget that kind of recent history.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 3:24 pm to Bass Tiger
Replace the nukes that we made Ukraine give up with the USSR collapsed.
Just kidding (sort of), but this is just another example of why no country will ever voluntarily surrender their nukes again.
Just kidding (sort of), but this is just another example of why no country will ever voluntarily surrender their nukes again.
This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 2/2/23 at 3:27 pm to Bass Tiger
Simplest solution is for Putin to get the fvck out of Ukraine.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 3:28 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Quit giving them money, arms, equipment, etc and it will be over in no time
This. They will fold like a cheap lawn chair.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 3:29 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
Our North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) allies have been ripping off America in trade while also relying on American taxpayers to pay their defense bills for decades. President Trump’s pressure on them to pay their fair share for defense is the right call and embodies his America First agenda.
“The United States is spending far more on NATO than any other Country. This is not fair, nor is it acceptable,” President Donald Trump tweeted.
“On top of this the European Union has a Trade Surplus of $151 Million with the United States, with big trade barriers on U.S. goods. NO!” he continued.
This is especially egregious considering Germany claims it needs protection from Putin — all the while buying large amounts of gas from Russia and, thus, helping fund the very potential and potent adversary. This is, in a word, insane.
Last year, the United States accounted for 51.1 percent of the combined GDP among all NATO countries and was responsible for a whopping 71.7 percent of its defense spending. This means the United States contributes more money to NATO than Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Canada and the United Kingdom combined.
LINK
Posted on 2/2/23 at 3:29 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Demilitarize the Donbass region for two years.
quote:
Deliver a shipment of Quadrotriticale to each of the two local factions.
quote:
Award the territory to the faction with the best crop yield
And enter into a security agreement with the remaining Ukraine whereby we provide a security arrangement with them if the Ruskies ever move an inch further.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 3:30 pm to Chief One Word
quote:
Biden put Putin in this position. Putin has no other choice now.
Putin put himself in this situation. And I hope there's a revolution at home that topples him.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 4:15 pm to Bass Tiger
Once they get the tanks, it's all over.
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