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re: Whatever happened to the libertarians on this board?
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:32 am to Eurocat
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:32 am to Eurocat
There has never been a large presence of actual libertarians on this board.
There has been, and still is, a fairly large group of posters that agree with some libertarian tenets but almost none that agree with everything.
You'll see comments that support abolishing the IRS from posters that also think states should be able to ban same sex marriage. You'll see posts that support a pure free market approach to education from posters that also support background checks and registration of firearms.
2016 Libertarian Party Platform
You would be hard pressed to name a large number of posters (past or present) that agrees with every one of the principles listed above.
There has been, and still is, a fairly large group of posters that agree with some libertarian tenets but almost none that agree with everything.
You'll see comments that support abolishing the IRS from posters that also think states should be able to ban same sex marriage. You'll see posts that support a pure free market approach to education from posters that also support background checks and registration of firearms.
2016 Libertarian Party Platform
You would be hard pressed to name a large number of posters (past or present) that agrees with every one of the principles listed above.
3
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:32 am to Salmon
quote:
expound then
quote:Military is about effectiveness, direction and use. Libertarianism requires an effective military to defend its principles. Do you see Trump overstepping those uses/qualities as W did in Iraq 'preemption', or as Obama did in terms of underperformance in effectiveness?
where Trump fails on libertarian views is military, border control, immigration, trade policy
Border control and immigration fall under much the same model.
Trump trade policy, given its emphasis on free and fair trade, is as prolibertarian as it could be.
This post was edited on 12/7/17 at 11:39 am
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:35 am to Salmon
quote:
I know. I don't know any libertarians that agree with the wall and travel bans loosely based on religion though .
The fact that he would throw "religion" into this out of nowhere, is all I need to realize he's not really interested in serious discussion here.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:36 am to Eurocat
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:36 am to Y.A. Tittle
Me? Do you deny that the initial travel bans were based off religion?
Don't be disingenuous.
Don't be disingenuous.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:36 am to Salmon
quote:You don't understand the limited ban you are referencing.
travel bans loosely based on religion though
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:38 am to Salmon
quote:
Me? Do you deny that the initial travel bans were based off religion?
Don't be disingenuous.
I took him to mean they were somehow based on the religious underpinnings of people he's castigating as not being "true" libertarians.
ETA, I find too many people tend to conflate too many things in these particular discussions in an attempt to try to show that they are the ones who can truly see what's up here beyond anyone else.
That's pretty much what these always devolve into, which is why they generally bore the hell out of me.
YOU'RE NOT REALLY LIBERTARIAN DAMMINT, BUT I AM!!!
This post was edited on 12/7/17 at 11:43 am
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:40 am to Salmon
quote:100%.
Do you deny that the initial travel bans were based off religion?
The implication is ridiculous.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:40 am to Collegedropout
quote:
Closed borders and immigration.
Libertarians are not for open borders. If they were they would welcome immigrants from Authoritarian Land who vow to kill all Libertarians.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:42 am to Eurocat
quote:
Now it is filled with people being against sex outside of marriage, affairs, reading the "wrong" texts, not living a Christian life which is supposedly our foundation, etc.
not to point out the obvious, but you can easily be a libertarian and still believe these things. but really i have no idea what the hell you're talking about. and i suspect you don't either.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:43 am to Zach
quote:
Libertarians are not for open borders.
Not open borders, but certainly not as hard a stance as Trump
quote:
Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:45 am to Eurocat
quote:
Whatever happened to the libertarians on this board?
Still here.
It just gets exhausting dealing with the ridiculousness of the left and the ridiculousness of the Trumpkinites.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:45 am to Salmon
quote:
Not open borders, but certainly not as hard a stance as Trump
Where's the 'sweet spot' for the true libertarian stance on borders (NOT boarders)?
This post was edited on 12/7/17 at 11:47 am
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:47 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Where's the 'sweet spot' for the true libertarian stance on boarders?
good luck getting a clear answer on that
personally I was fine with just enforcing the laws we have already
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:49 am to Salmon
quote:You mean regarding adherence to the law? Insisting that existing law be enforced is a "hard stance"?
not as hard a stance as Trump
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:50 am to Salmon
quote:
Do you deny that the initial travel bans were based off religion?
They weren't
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:51 am to Salmon
What's the wall, if not an enforcement mechanism?
I mean, I suppose one could reasonably argue it's relative effectiveness as one, but I'm not sure how it's more or less "libertarian" under our current set of immigration laws/control apparatus.
I mean, I suppose one could reasonably argue it's relative effectiveness as one, but I'm not sure how it's more or less "libertarian" under our current set of immigration laws/control apparatus.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:51 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
They weren't
When Trump stated that he would give exemptions to all "minority" religions from those countries, they became so
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:52 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Where's the 'sweet spot' for the true libertarian stance on borders (NOT boarders)?
I don't speak for libertarians but I believe immigration should be economic-based. Seek immigration of skilled, needed labor and reject immigration of unskilled, unneeded labor.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 11:57 am to Salmon
quote:
When Trump stated that he would give exemptions to all "minority" religions from those countries, they became so
You're politically illiterate. The list of the countries in the initial ban evolved under the Obama Administration because they are failed states - meaning that government structure in these countries is so dysfunctional that they cannot maintain basic residents on those seeking to immigrate. Iran is the only country that doesn't fall in his category.
If the ban was religious-based; then it's terribly ineffective considering the largest Muslim-populated countries aren't included. The largest Muslim-populated country on the travel ban list is Iran and it's the 7th largest Muslim nation.
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