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What led to a decline in manufacturing jobs initially?

Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:44 pm
Posted by volod
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
5392 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:44 pm

bls manufacturing over 50 years



Rise in Manufacturing from 2015

I know this is an old chart, but it does show that overall manufacturing has generally been on the decline.

So a few questions

1) why is saving manufacturing important to the GOP. If the free market is naturally causing the decline, isn't that just capitalism?

2) if manufacturing is naturally fading, why use government subsidies to uphold it?

3) People are reliant on manufacturing always being there, even though our society is mostly service based. Is the GOP trying to hide the fact that people need to learn other skills and adapt?




This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 6:53 pm
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69314 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:45 pm to
1) labor saving tech

2) union contracts that put America at disadvantage
Posted by timdonaghyswhistle
Member since Jul 2018
16306 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:47 pm to
If you swap "DNC" for "GOP" and "our public education system" for "manufacturing" your post makes even more sense. Relevant because it addresses your third question.
This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 6:48 pm
Posted by Gusoline
Jacksonville, NC
Member since Dec 2013
7639 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:49 pm to
they were going overseas to get lower corporate tax rates.

/thread
Posted by bamafan1001
Member since Jun 2011
15783 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:50 pm to
Unions were a major reason. It became wayyyy too expensive to hire union employees when the Chinese could make a similar product while paying their employees peanuts.

quote:

2) if manufacturing is naturally fading, why use government subsidies to uphold it?


Its not. Foreign car companies have built plants all over the South where unions are not a problem. There is just as much manufacturing as there ever was.

quote:

3) People are reliant on manufacturing always being there, even though our society is mostly service based. Is the GOP trying to hide the fact that people need to learn other skills and adapt?


Its impossible to have a completely service based economy unless you live in a small island country.
Posted by Stingray
Shreveport
Member since Sep 2007
12420 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:51 pm to
quote:

If the free market is naturally causing the decline, isn't that just capitalism?


Free Market is national thing, not international.
This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 6:53 pm
Posted by Stingray
Shreveport
Member since Sep 2007
12420 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:52 pm to
quote:

Is the GOP trying to hide the fact that people need to learn other skills and adapt? 


Only if we overdo the help.
Posted by Korin
Member since Jan 2014
37935 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:56 pm to
automation
globalization
NAFTA
Posted by volod
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
5392 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:56 pm to
quote:

s not. Foreign car companies have built plants all over the South where unions are not a problem. There is just as much manufacturing as there ever was. 



I know this applies to Alabama, GeorgiaTexas. What about other states like Louisiana, Mississippi, or Arkansas?
Posted by TerryDawg03
The Deep South
Member since Dec 2012
15737 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:57 pm to
From a national security perspective, if we can’t grow our own food or build our own stuff, we’d be at the mercy of our trade partners.

The economics side of things has a ton more things to consider.
Posted by idlewatcher
County Jail
Member since Jan 2012
79241 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:57 pm to
Let’s see....paying a Chinaman $1/day vs $30/hr.
Posted by blowmeauburn
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2006
7886 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:59 pm to
That chart does nothing but validate Ross Perot. Huge sucking sound.
Posted by ScottFowler
NE Ohio
Member since Sep 2012
4150 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 7:00 pm to
Union Wages vs Slave Labor Wages

Regulations - EPA

Insurance, Lawyers, and a sue happy populace.
Posted by tigerjoey
Montana
Member since Oct 2010
271 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 7:02 pm to
I agree with both of your reasons for a decline in manufacturing. I would add, after looking at the graph, the declines over the past 40+ years appear to coincide with the normalization of relations by Nixon in the 70's and NAFTA in the 90's.
Posted by AbuTheMonkey
Chicago, IL
Member since May 2014
8012 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 7:46 pm to
Automation, by far.

Overlay that employment graph onto an American manufacturing productivity graph, and you'll see basically no correlation between the two. American productivity has risen and risen and risen. The amount of people it takes to produce has dropped and dropped and dropped.

Same phenomenon has actually been happening in China the last few years after an initial decades-long burst of manufacturing employment.
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
90718 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 8:27 pm to
I was reading an old news article from the 1920s about Itta Bena, Ms and what businesses they had and what they wanted. It was unreal how many small factories it had for a small town. It was necessary to produce goods for local commerce as shipping was difficult then.

So as far as small town manufacturing, a lot of it was due to urbanization and the ability to ship from one large central location that made consistent products. This killed the small town factories.
Posted by jimdog
columbus, ga
Member since Dec 2012
6636 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 9:24 pm to
(1) So you think the basis of a strong and lasting economy is shining each other's shoes.

(2) And as far as national security is concerned which society is more immune to domination by others, one that specializes in shining shoes or building ships.

Get your head out. You might need it at some point.
This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 9:25 pm
Posted by johnnyrocket
Ghetto once known as Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2013
9790 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 9:54 pm to
The plants are moving South to escape unions.
Louisiana and Mississippi are unique as they have a river to cross and a lot of two lane roads which hamper raw materials getting to plants.

A lot of mfg companies like Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia as they done well building nicer hwys leading from rural areas where land cheap to build factories to major hwys.

Biggest reasons some plants left the US.
1. Environmental regulations
- ex China or some other countries they can reuse dirty water to cool steal.
- US you have to treat it which drives up the cost
2. Labor cost is becoming less of an issue as shipping and opportunity lost waiting for shipping containers to come in offset labor cost.
3. Finding labor
- I know one plant mgr that told me finding trained labor who is willing to stick with you is hard.
He needs 1200 full time and 1200 seasonal workers. They moved the plant from Tempe, Az where they competed with hotels for labor during snowbird season to Nogales, Mexico. The Mexican government guarantees them x amount of the to show up. The pay the same as US pay it just they need a large amount of labor $20 to $30 hr benefits vary on which side they work Mexico at the plant or US at the distribution center or parts plant.

FYI, It is interesting if a US worker visit the Mexican plant you have to get an $80 permit.

A lot of plants have been moving from China to US/ Mexican border. Reason is the West Coast ports get backed up so delivery times are unreliable. Mexico has labor and easy to get products shipped across the border back into Texas or Arizona.
This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 10:05 pm
Posted by TigerNAtux
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2007
17112 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 9:56 pm to
NAFTA. GAT.
Posted by germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
14135 posts
Posted on 7/24/18 at 10:31 pm to
quote:


1) why is saving manufacturing important to the GOP. If the free market is naturally causing the decline, isn't that just capitalism?




Until 2016 the GOP could care less about manufacturing.....along with moderate Democrats since 1980. Since 1945 we have subsidized the world’s economy by providing stability and security to the world. Since 1980 we have, as a nation, been hoodwinked into believing there is such a thing as a free market when about 1% of the people on earth foot the bill for about 75% of the bill to provide security and stability to the world.

In the late 1970 s Democrats were all over this.....and the GOP knew it was resonating with voters....and then Ronald Reagan came along and sold the bill of goods that it was regulation and taxation.....not military spending stabilizing markets and making unthinkable investments less risky.....and for 38 years we have doubled and tripled down on increasing military spending, trickle down economics and deregulation....while OUR jobs went to our competition because suddenly China and Asia and India and Africa became safe for investment. Trump is reversing that shite and you can bet that Democrats and Republican wannabes alike are taking note.....the only way to MAGA is by protectionism....if we are are going to protect markets for Chinese goods it’s only right that we do so US Made products.
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