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What led to a decline in manufacturing jobs initially?
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:44 pm
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:44 pm
bls manufacturing over 50 years
Rise in Manufacturing from 2015
I know this is an old chart, but it does show that overall manufacturing has generally been on the decline.
So a few questions
1) why is saving manufacturing important to the GOP. If the free market is naturally causing the decline, isn't that just capitalism?
2) if manufacturing is naturally fading, why use government subsidies to uphold it?
3) People are reliant on manufacturing always being there, even though our society is mostly service based. Is the GOP trying to hide the fact that people need to learn other skills and adapt?
This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:45 pm to volod
1) labor saving tech
2) union contracts that put America at disadvantage
2) union contracts that put America at disadvantage
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:47 pm to volod
If you swap "DNC" for "GOP" and "our public education system" for "manufacturing" your post makes even more sense. Relevant because it addresses your third question.
This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:49 pm to volod
they were going overseas to get lower corporate tax rates.
/thread
/thread
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:50 pm to volod
Unions were a major reason. It became wayyyy too expensive to hire union employees when the Chinese could make a similar product while paying their employees peanuts.
Its not. Foreign car companies have built plants all over the South where unions are not a problem. There is just as much manufacturing as there ever was.
Its impossible to have a completely service based economy unless you live in a small island country.
quote:
2) if manufacturing is naturally fading, why use government subsidies to uphold it?
Its not. Foreign car companies have built plants all over the South where unions are not a problem. There is just as much manufacturing as there ever was.
quote:
3) People are reliant on manufacturing always being there, even though our society is mostly service based. Is the GOP trying to hide the fact that people need to learn other skills and adapt?
Its impossible to have a completely service based economy unless you live in a small island country.
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:51 pm to volod
quote:
If the free market is naturally causing the decline, isn't that just capitalism?
Free Market is national thing, not international.
This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:52 pm to volod
quote:
Is the GOP trying to hide the fact that people need to learn other skills and adapt?
Only if we overdo the help.
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:56 pm to volod
automation
globalization
NAFTA
globalization
NAFTA
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:56 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
s not. Foreign car companies have built plants all over the South where unions are not a problem. There is just as much manufacturing as there ever was.
I know this applies to Alabama, GeorgiaTexas. What about other states like Louisiana, Mississippi, or Arkansas?
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:57 pm to volod
From a national security perspective, if we can’t grow our own food or build our own stuff, we’d be at the mercy of our trade partners.
The economics side of things has a ton more things to consider.
The economics side of things has a ton more things to consider.
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:57 pm to volod
Let’s see....paying a Chinaman $1/day vs $30/hr.
Posted on 7/24/18 at 6:59 pm to volod
That chart does nothing but validate Ross Perot. Huge sucking sound.
Posted on 7/24/18 at 7:00 pm to idlewatcher
Union Wages vs Slave Labor Wages
Regulations - EPA
Insurance, Lawyers, and a sue happy populace.
Regulations - EPA
Insurance, Lawyers, and a sue happy populace.
Posted on 7/24/18 at 7:02 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I agree with both of your reasons for a decline in manufacturing. I would add, after looking at the graph, the declines over the past 40+ years appear to coincide with the normalization of relations by Nixon in the 70's and NAFTA in the 90's.
Posted on 7/24/18 at 7:46 pm to volod
Automation, by far.
Overlay that employment graph onto an American manufacturing productivity graph, and you'll see basically no correlation between the two. American productivity has risen and risen and risen. The amount of people it takes to produce has dropped and dropped and dropped.
Same phenomenon has actually been happening in China the last few years after an initial decades-long burst of manufacturing employment.
Overlay that employment graph onto an American manufacturing productivity graph, and you'll see basically no correlation between the two. American productivity has risen and risen and risen. The amount of people it takes to produce has dropped and dropped and dropped.
Same phenomenon has actually been happening in China the last few years after an initial decades-long burst of manufacturing employment.
Posted on 7/24/18 at 8:27 pm to volod
I was reading an old news article from the 1920s about Itta Bena, Ms and what businesses they had and what they wanted. It was unreal how many small factories it had for a small town. It was necessary to produce goods for local commerce as shipping was difficult then.
So as far as small town manufacturing, a lot of it was due to urbanization and the ability to ship from one large central location that made consistent products. This killed the small town factories.
So as far as small town manufacturing, a lot of it was due to urbanization and the ability to ship from one large central location that made consistent products. This killed the small town factories.
Posted on 7/24/18 at 9:24 pm to volod
(1) So you think the basis of a strong and lasting economy is shining each other's shoes.
(2) And as far as national security is concerned which society is more immune to domination by others, one that specializes in shining shoes or building ships.
Get your head out. You might need it at some point.
(2) And as far as national security is concerned which society is more immune to domination by others, one that specializes in shining shoes or building ships.
Get your head out. You might need it at some point.
This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 9:25 pm
Posted on 7/24/18 at 9:54 pm to volod
The plants are moving South to escape unions.
Louisiana and Mississippi are unique as they have a river to cross and a lot of two lane roads which hamper raw materials getting to plants.
A lot of mfg companies like Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia as they done well building nicer hwys leading from rural areas where land cheap to build factories to major hwys.
Biggest reasons some plants left the US.
1. Environmental regulations
- ex China or some other countries they can reuse dirty water to cool steal.
- US you have to treat it which drives up the cost
2. Labor cost is becoming less of an issue as shipping and opportunity lost waiting for shipping containers to come in offset labor cost.
3. Finding labor
- I know one plant mgr that told me finding trained labor who is willing to stick with you is hard.
He needs 1200 full time and 1200 seasonal workers. They moved the plant from Tempe, Az where they competed with hotels for labor during snowbird season to Nogales, Mexico. The Mexican government guarantees them x amount of the to show up. The pay the same as US pay it just they need a large amount of labor $20 to $30 hr benefits vary on which side they work Mexico at the plant or US at the distribution center or parts plant.
FYI, It is interesting if a US worker visit the Mexican plant you have to get an $80 permit.
A lot of plants have been moving from China to US/ Mexican border. Reason is the West Coast ports get backed up so delivery times are unreliable. Mexico has labor and easy to get products shipped across the border back into Texas or Arizona.
Louisiana and Mississippi are unique as they have a river to cross and a lot of two lane roads which hamper raw materials getting to plants.
A lot of mfg companies like Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia as they done well building nicer hwys leading from rural areas where land cheap to build factories to major hwys.
Biggest reasons some plants left the US.
1. Environmental regulations
- ex China or some other countries they can reuse dirty water to cool steal.
- US you have to treat it which drives up the cost
2. Labor cost is becoming less of an issue as shipping and opportunity lost waiting for shipping containers to come in offset labor cost.
3. Finding labor
- I know one plant mgr that told me finding trained labor who is willing to stick with you is hard.
He needs 1200 full time and 1200 seasonal workers. They moved the plant from Tempe, Az where they competed with hotels for labor during snowbird season to Nogales, Mexico. The Mexican government guarantees them x amount of the to show up. The pay the same as US pay it just they need a large amount of labor $20 to $30 hr benefits vary on which side they work Mexico at the plant or US at the distribution center or parts plant.
FYI, It is interesting if a US worker visit the Mexican plant you have to get an $80 permit.
A lot of plants have been moving from China to US/ Mexican border. Reason is the West Coast ports get backed up so delivery times are unreliable. Mexico has labor and easy to get products shipped across the border back into Texas or Arizona.
This post was edited on 7/24/18 at 10:05 pm
Posted on 7/24/18 at 10:31 pm to volod
quote:
1) why is saving manufacturing important to the GOP. If the free market is naturally causing the decline, isn't that just capitalism?
Until 2016 the GOP could care less about manufacturing.....along with moderate Democrats since 1980. Since 1945 we have subsidized the world’s economy by providing stability and security to the world. Since 1980 we have, as a nation, been hoodwinked into believing there is such a thing as a free market when about 1% of the people on earth foot the bill for about 75% of the bill to provide security and stability to the world.
In the late 1970 s Democrats were all over this.....and the GOP knew it was resonating with voters....and then Ronald Reagan came along and sold the bill of goods that it was regulation and taxation.....not military spending stabilizing markets and making unthinkable investments less risky.....and for 38 years we have doubled and tripled down on increasing military spending, trickle down economics and deregulation....while OUR jobs went to our competition because suddenly China and Asia and India and Africa became safe for investment. Trump is reversing that shite and you can bet that Democrats and Republican wannabes alike are taking note.....the only way to MAGA is by protectionism....if we are are going to protect markets for Chinese goods it’s only right that we do so US Made products.
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