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Message
re: What Did Men Do to Deserve This? (Another take on the so-called man/boy crisis)
Posted on 11/14/25 at 5:25 pm to BugAC
Posted on 11/14/25 at 5:25 pm to BugAC
quote:
I didnt' address your article. I addressed you. Give me your response
You asked me to read and interpret the article for you so can find points to argue with me about. Why would I spend my time doing that for you knowing that you are looking for an argument and not a real discussion? Read it yourself and answer your own questions about the study.
0
Posted on 11/14/25 at 5:29 pm to 4cubbies
I didn't read the entire article or this thread, but i've always thought this is never discussed enough in the college vs no college debates
sure, that trades are great and college is more expensive... but if you're an at least somewhat successful educated middle/upper middle class person, are you really not trying to send your daughters to college? they are 51% of the population
and yes boys and young men are struggling, but girls and young women aren't killing it either. they're all fat and broke too. they just get laid more
quote:
noting that women need more education to earn the same amount of money as men, and that the less education a worker has, the more this gender gap widens.
sure, that trades are great and college is more expensive... but if you're an at least somewhat successful educated middle/upper middle class person, are you really not trying to send your daughters to college? they are 51% of the population
and yes boys and young men are struggling, but girls and young women aren't killing it either. they're all fat and broke too. they just get laid more
Posted on 11/14/25 at 5:33 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:you are implying there is an institutional barrier preventing men from attending college. Do you believe institutional barriers are preventing boys who want to attend college from attending college? I’ve stated repeatedly that I’m unsure of what point you’re trying to make. I’ve asked multiple times for clarity and you continue to respond with vague condescension.
Fewer men, in raw numbers (not %) are going to college
quote:
How would more women going to college more create the decline in participation by men?
I didn’t claim that women going to college created the decline in participation by men. Is that your argument?
quote:cute.
Why would men not want to earn more as a sex? Did Jesus come back and tell everyone to be poor in 2011 and only men listened?
If a man can go to college for $65,000 or even $10,000 and get a job making $65,000/year or NOT go to college and get a job making a similar wage, why might he forego college?
quote:
If this spin that women must go to college to survive is true,
No one made that claim. You’re uncharacteristically emotional about this topic.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 5:34 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
and yes boys and young men are struggling, but girls and young women aren't killing it either.
/thread.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 5:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
There's still a MASSIVE gap left over for men you're NOT accounting for.
What is your theory?
Posted on 11/14/25 at 5:39 pm to Narax
quote:
So you now admit that teachers all over brought up medication to parents
Grimace. I still claim that teachers are not driving their over-medicating phenomenon. I made a solid case for NCLB driving it. You haven’t accounted for why teachers were NOT medicating kids before NCLB and started to after (since you blame teachers for this issue).
Posted on 11/14/25 at 6:14 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
You haven’t accounted for why teachers were NOT medicating kids before NCLB and started to after (since you blame teachers for this issue).
They were since long before NCLB...
I'm from the 80s. My friends were getting dosed in the 80s...
Posted on 11/14/25 at 6:16 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
you are implying there is an institutional barrier preventing men from attending college
What else could account for the drastic swings pre-70s to post-2010s?
Do you think that institutional barriers don't account for the pre-70s sex gap when men dominated the population? I thought that was presumed, but if you want to explain to me why that's wrong, feel free.
quote:
Do you believe institutional barriers are preventing boys who want to attend college from attending college?
Yes.
And it's a scenario where it will build on itself and snowball over time.
This isn't good for women, mind you. They face major problems finding real relationships and have much harsher odds at normal customs like marriage and having kids. That sex gap means there aren't enough men to marry. That sex gap also means that the sex-imbalance in college leads to a hookup culture where the top echelon of men get lots of cheap sex without having to put forth any effort at being a good mate/partner and don't develop that side of themselves. It also means there is a huge number of men left out of the dating market, which also isn't good.
quote:
I didn’t claim that women going to college created the decline in participation by men.
Because your argument is nonsensical as that is how you're explaining the decline in men in college. Thank you for agreeing.
quote:
If a man can go to college for $65,000 or even $10,000 and get a job making $65,000/year or NOT go to college and get a job making a similar wage, why might he forego college?
a. This is a boomer-OT myth.
b. The data show that on the whole, you earn a lot more with a college degree and your QOL is much better, with a longer working life.
quote:
You’re uncharacteristically emotional
Me pointing out silliness =/= being emotional. Using sarcasm to mock bad points is not anger.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 6:17 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
What is your theory?
You're putting the cart before the horse still.
We still haven't built the base yet to have that discussion.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 7:35 pm to Narax
quote:
They were since long before NCLB...
I'm from the 80s. My friends were getting dosed in the 80s...
I know my mom told my pediatrician I was super hyper and the ped suggested medication in my case. I wasn’t even in school yet. None of my teachers even knew I’m hyper because I behaved in school and just fidgeted a lot.
I suppose you have knowledge that teachers told the parents of your friends to put them on Ritalin and the parents did.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 7:40 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
I suppose you have knowledge that teachers told the parents of your friends to put them on Ritalin and the parents did.
Typically the stimulant pipeline starts with the teachers bringing up the fact that Johnny isn't paying attention in school.
It isn't the teacher's fault that the system is ridiculous, and the teachers don't prescribe the drugs... but they are definitely on the front lines of the over medication crisis.
My little half sister, like you, got put on them around four or so based on her mother's discussions with her pediatrician. But that's not usually the way these kids get dosed with ritalin or adderall.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 7:43 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
What else could account for the drastic swings pre-70s to post-2010s?
Stagnate wages for college graduates and ever-increasing costs associated with college attendance are my first thoughts.
What happened to the college wage premium?
quote:
Do you think that institutional barriers don't account for the pre-70s sex gap when men dominated the population? I thought that was presumed, but if you want to explain to me why that's wrong, feel free.
I’m still waiting for you to identify the institutional barrier you keep alluding to. It’s impossible for me to argue for or against an unknown variable.
quote:
Because your argument is nonsensical as that is how you're explaining the decline in men in college. Thank you for agreeing.
Grow up.
You are disputing the study that found women require more education to earn the wages that uneducated men are? I guess that’s the first point I need to understand. You are dismissing this claim because you believe it is false, correct? And you blame some unknown “institutional barrier” for keeping men who want to attend college from attending college? Correct?
It looks like I’m trying to actually understand this needlessly vague point you are defending and you just want to mock me for not being able to read your “genius” mind.
This post was edited on 11/14/25 at 7:46 pm
Posted on 11/14/25 at 8:11 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Stagnate wages for college graduates and ever-increasing costs associated with college attendance are my first thoughts.
What happened to the college wage premium?
You keep answering as if I'm only using the data on men. The divergence includes more women going to college, too.
Exponentially more women going to college in that timespan is because of ....stagnant wages and increased costs?
quote:
I’m still waiting for you to identify the institutional barrier you keep alluding to.
Why were there so few women in college pre-70s?
quote:
You are disputing the study that found women require more education to earn the wages that uneducated men are?
No. I'm not "disputing" it. I specifically said it was not responsive or relevant to the discussion.
Then I showed why that was correct.
So, since you keep being evasive we have to go back to before square one.
Why were there so few women in college pre-70s?
What is the inherent sexual characteristic of women that made them such a smaller % of the population in college? What is the biological issue at play? Or, are you going to say it wasn't biological? If so, then what non-biological explanation do you have?
Posted on 11/14/25 at 8:23 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
I suppose you have knowledge that teachers told the parents of your friends to put them on Ritalin and the parents did.
Yea 13 years of grade school, a number of kids who wound up on it.
Like Sally says, it's so ridiculous common.
millions...
quote:
In 1970, an estimated 150,000 children were taking stimulant medication (including Ritalin and others like Dexedrine) in the U.S.
quote:
From 2012 to 2023 the projected number of stimulant prescriptions dispensed increased by 60%,
from 50.4 million in 2012 to 80.8 million in 2023 (Figure 1). In the last year (from 2022 to 2023) the
number of prescriptions remained relatively stable, increasing by only 1.4%.
From 2012 to 2023, the projected number of patients who received a stimulant prescription increased
by 48% from 11.1 million to 16.5 million. The number of patients increased by 18% between 2022 and
2023 – the largest year-over-year change observed during the study period. The number of
prescriptions per patients rose steadily from 4.6 in 2012 to 5.7 in 2022, before declining by 13% to 4.9
in 2023
In 2012 the most common age was 11 to 20, now its 31 to 40....
Its so common every male knows many other males who were on an ADHD medication.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 8:43 pm to 4cubbies
quote:have you tried not being an insufferable bitch? I don't ignore my wife but she's cool. You are the literal worst
In what ways would you say women are NOT generally ignored?
Posted on 11/14/25 at 8:56 pm to Narax
quote:
Its so common every male knows many other males who were on an ADHD medication.
All because of teachers who didn’t have custody of these kids or have the ability to prescribe or fill medication.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 8:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
When you’re ready to make a point, I’m happy to respond. I’m not participating in a Socratic seminar over the course of days so you can scratch whatever this itch is.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 9:02 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
I totally participated in a Socratic seminar over the course of days so SFP can slap whatever this bitch is.
Posted on 11/14/25 at 11:06 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
All because of teachers who didn’t have custody of these kids or have the ability to prescribe or fill medication.
Its clear you will defend teachers who were the initial start of this for millions.
You never really believed your arguments did you?
It never happened... oh wait major publications said it was epidemic....
Oh the article never blamed teachers... oh wait it did...
Well it all happened due to NCLB... oh wait it was rampant much earlier...
You dont think those teachers did anything wrong even if those boys were seriously harmed, to you a teacher who recommended ADHD medication to the parents of 200 boys over 40 years was justified.
Why try to argue with the facts, you think they did nothing wrong.
This post was edited on 11/14/25 at 11:10 pm
Posted on 11/15/25 at 2:17 am to Narax
quote:
Its clear you will defend teachers who were the initial start of this for millions.
I have not defended any teacher diagnosing a kid with any medical condition. Teachers are not qualified to do that nor are they legally able to recommend medication (at least currently). I simply do not blame teachers for parents seeking out ADHD medication for their kids. Parents must be held accountable for their own parenting decisions.
quote:? I could ask you the same thing. I taught for years and sent so much literature home to parents proving the importance of kids getting 10-14 hours of sleep at night and parents still wouldn’t make their kids go to bed early, but I’m supposed to disregard my experience of parents not heeding the advice of teachers and blame teachers for parents medicating their kids.
You never really believed your arguments did you?
quote:
It never happened... oh wait major publications said it was epidemic..
The major publication did not say teachers recommending medication to parents is an epidemic.
quote:anecdotally.
oh wait it was rampant much earlier...
quote:teachers legally cannot do this today because it is so unethical and unprofessional. I am not defending a teacher for doing something that is so outside of their scope, it’s actually illegal now. I am not blaming a teacher for a parent taking their kid to a doctor for medication and then the parent making the kid take the medication.
You dont think those teachers did anything wrong even if those boys were seriously harmed, to you a teacher who recommended ADHD medication to the parents of 200 boys over 40 years was justified.
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