re: Were Trump & Obama Chosen by God?

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yes but this doesn't mean he endorses everything that happens in the world.

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God doesn't "endorse" sin, but He allows it (and even refuses to prevent it from occurring) so that a greater good can occur.

God is sovereign over even wicked rulers and He will judge them for their sin.

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God is sovereign over even wicked rulers and He will judge them for their sin.

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Cool none of that relates to my point that I don't think God choses them. I don't think he uses his sovereignty in that way. I don't think God picked out Hitler, or Joseph Stalin, or Pol Pot and ordained him to be a horrific leaders for some greater purpose.

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Nah, frick those kids, I'll make sure this one black dude gets elected president of a nation that openly mocks me.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Cool none of that relates to my point that I don't think God choses them. I don't think he uses his sovereignty in that way. I don't think God picked out Hitler, or Joseph Stalin, or Pol Pot and ordained him to be a horrific leaders for some greater purpose.

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Did you read the Bible verses I posted? God raised up evil rulers throughout all history, from Pharaoh to Nero, yet you think God has no say in modern day rulers?

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Did you read the Bible verses I posted? 

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Yes

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yet you think God has no say in modern day rulers?

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Yes. I don't believe he is chosing them. That would contradict free will and make christianity pointless.

Threads like these make me think I’m taking crazy pills

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No it does not. Your interpretation of what happened here is where you are flawed

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Please enlighten me. Please explain how a modern day ruler could have a situation like the Pharaoh in Exodus and not be eternally damned to hell by God's own doing.

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I was referring to Paul being blinded and going from being one of the primary persecutors of Christians to a disciple

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You're going to need to provide more details about how Paul could not have chosen to ignore God to disprove my point. Which is impossible, so I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

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Paul could not have chosen to ignore God to disprove my point.

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You do realize Paul was blinded, right? God spoke directly to him... God did not force him to believe but He most certainly made his presence known...

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lol false. literally false. like factually, 100% not possible false.

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Quite the opposite.

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If you are right, I should be pointed to evidence that shows morality began with the advent of the Jewish faith? Right? Show me please. What about the other 200+ thousand years of human existence? Morality did not exist?

Religion and morality are not the same thing. Never have been, never will be. They are so often labeled as the same that they become interchangeable to some people.

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You misunderstand where "morality" comes from in a Christian worldview. I didn't say it started with Abraham or Moses. I said that if you reject God, you have no objective basis for morality (a moral framework). God is the key here. The Christian worldview states that God has always existed and that His very unchanging, eternal, and holy character is the basis or standard for what we call morality. That basis has existed long before Abraham, Moses, or even Adam. Therefore morality didn't have to "start" with the nation of Israel or their formal religious rites.

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Personally, I endured 14 years of Catholic school, never believing for a second that god was real. Somehow, I have no criminal record and by most accounts, people would refer to me as a good person. Sorry you don't believe that a good person can exist without having to believe in magic.

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God defines what is "good", and He says that no one is good because no one is perfectly sinless (outside of Christ).

That being said, people can appear to be "good" because they are made in the image of God with His moral law written on their hearts. This manifests itself in what we call the conscience so we "know" good and evil without having to be taught it. Our sinful natures can suppress that knowledge and even pervert it so that our consciences are seared and we no longer feel the prick of conviction when we do what we know we shouldn't do.

But all that gets back to my point: I didn't say people couldn't act morally; I said people who reject God have no objective basis for what is good or what is evil. Without an objective (originating outside of the human experience) reference, all moral standards are inherently subjective and amount to nothing more than personal opinion. Without God, you have no basis to condemn anything as evil. You just have your own feeling or belief about what is good and what is bad, but nothing outside of the human experience to tell you what is objective good or bad. Not liking something doesn't mean that something is morally wrong.