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Were Trump & Obama Chosen by God?
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:18 am
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:18 am
Rick Perry believes so. LINK The media is using this to push a story of "Trump's base is a cult" but actually Perry said Obama was also ordained by God, so that's heavy cherry picking. Not sure how one could think either of those men are ordained by God, outside of a predestinationist philosophy, but everyone's entitled to their own beliefs.
23
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:19 am to HogFanfromHTown
I agree with RP on this!
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:20 am to HogFanfromHTown
I'm sure you can find proof on a ballot from an inner city showing GOD voted as a democrat.
Without an ID of course
Without an ID of course
This post was edited on 11/25/19 at 10:21 am
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:22 am to HogFanfromHTown
quote:
ordained by God
I don't know if ordained is the correct term but God has used all kinds of men throughout history to do His will...
The Old Testament is full of examples, so if you believe in God, why would you not think He has had a hand in both Obama's and Trump's presidencies?
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:25 am to The Maj
quote:
I don't know if ordained is the correct term
Just using the terms RP used.
quote:
why would you not think He has had a hand in both Obama's and Trump's presidencies
Personally I believe in free will and that God has a plan for us. What I mean is, God has a plan for everyone, and it's up to us to follow that plan. I'm not sure Trump & Obama being President is in God's plan.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:26 am to HogFanfromHTown
One of these, is not like the other.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:27 am to HogFanfromHTown
quote:
God has a plan for us.
You believe this...
quote:
I'm not sure Trump & Obama being President is in God's plan.
But you do not believe they are part of God's plan?
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:30 am to HogFanfromHTown
Technically all things—including the rule of leaders—are ordained by God.
“Blessed be the name of God forever and ever,
to whom belong wisdom and might.
He changes times and seasons;
he removes kings and sets up kings;
he gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to those who have understanding;
he reveals deep and hidden things;
he knows what is in the darkness,
and the light dwells with him.” -Daniel 2:20-22
“Blessed be the name of God forever and ever,
to whom belong wisdom and might.
He changes times and seasons;
he removes kings and sets up kings;
he gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to those who have understanding;
he reveals deep and hidden things;
he knows what is in the darkness,
and the light dwells with him.” -Daniel 2:20-22
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:44 am to The Maj
quote:
But you do not believe they are part of God's plan?
Yes because God gave us free will. He does not make decisions for us. If we cannot truly make our own independent decesions what is the point of the day of judgement?
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:48 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Technically all things—including the rule of leaders—are ordained by God.
I don't believe in that interpretation. I don't believe evil leaders are ordained by God.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:48 am to HogFanfromHTown
quote:
free will.
I don't think you have an understanding of this and what you are arguing against... They are truly two separate things...
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:49 am to HogFanfromHTown
Yep... God had to put Obama in to get the people who hear His voice energized to support a candidate that would turn the tide set in motion by Obama and his ilk....
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:50 am to The Maj
quote:if you're going to accuse me of a lack of understanding at least state specifically why that is.
I don't think you have an understanding of this and what you are arguing against... They are truly two separate things
This post was edited on 11/25/19 at 10:50 am
Posted on 11/25/19 at 10:57 am to HogFanfromHTown
quote:
if you're going to accuse me of a lack of understanding at least state specifically why that is.
Do you even know the story of Moses? Did God use Pharaoh or not? That is probably one of the best and most clear examples of a leader being utilized by God...
They are plenty of other examples:
Habakkuk 1:6, “For indeed I am raising up the Chaldeans, A bitter and hasty nation Which marches through the breadth of the earth, To possess dwelling places that are not theirs.”
Samson and Abraham?
What about Paul in the New Testament?
Posted on 11/25/19 at 11:00 am to HogFanfromHTown
You should watch the Netflix documentary series "The Family" on this very subject.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 11:01 am to HogFanfromHTown
I believe in the sovereignty of God, so my answer is yes to both.
See, Daniel 2:21
See, Daniel 2:21
Posted on 11/25/19 at 11:02 am to HogFanfromHTown
So I voted for Obama’s first term. Does that mean I’m God?
Posted on 11/25/19 at 11:20 am to HogFanfromHTown
quote:That's not simply an interpretation. There are many, many verses that exhibit God's sovereignty over all things. Here are just a few that talk about God's sovereignty over rulers (both good and bad):
I don't believe in that interpretation. I don't believe evil leaders are ordained by God.
"The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will." -Proverbs 21:1
“O Lord, God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand you." -2 Chronicles 20:6
"Which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords" -1 Timothy 6:15
"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment" -Romans 13:1-2
"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. -Colossians 1:16
"Jesus answered [Pilate], “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.” -John 19:11
"For truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place." -Acts 4:27-28
"But for this purpose I have raised you (Pharoah) up, to show you my power, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth." -Exodus 9:16
This post was edited on 11/25/19 at 11:24 am
Posted on 11/25/19 at 11:33 am to FooManChoo
And God hardened Pharaoh’s heart...
quote:
But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had spoken to Moses.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 11:34 am to The Maj
quote:
Do you even know the story of Moses? Did God use Pharaoh or not? That is probably one of the best and most clear examples of a leader being utilized by God...
They are plenty of other examples:
Habakkuk 1:6, “For indeed I am raising up the Chaldeans, A bitter and hasty nation Which marches through the breadth of the earth, To possess dwelling places that are not theirs.”
Samson and Abraham?
I do not believe God continues to be directly involved in our world in the manner that he was in old testament. God hardening the Pharoah's heart would make his day of judgement obsolete. How could he not have chosen sin since God literaly forced him to?
quote:
What about Paul in the New Testament?
I do not believe Romans 13 means that all rulers are chosen by God.
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