re: Were Trump & Obama Chosen by God?

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Not true.

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Your Creation + Knowing What you will do = free will?

News to me. If I write a novel, I don't pretend like the story wrote itself afterwards.

All I keep coming back to, every time I have a religious discussion, I just can't get over the fact that even though I did not ask to be created, I could end up in an eternity of fire for acquiescing to my urge to beat off when I was 14 and not feeling bad about it. According to the Catholic faith, if you jerk off at noon and get hit by a bus at 12:05, off to hell you go.

Again, no thanks. It's a losing battle and I'll just enjoy my time here being a decent person and not feeling bad about it before I get cast into the lake of fire because I smoke pot and drink a little too much.

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Your Creation + Knowing What you will do = free will?

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It's not that simple lol. We have true free will. What I mean is we get to control what we do with our lives. I chose to type this message on the politcal talk board of the tigerdroppings website. God did not make me. I don't think God creating me or him knowing that I would make these decesions when he created me, eradicates the independent decesion that I made.

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I'll just enjoy my time here being a decent person and not feeling bad about it before I get cast into the lake of fire because I smoke pot and drink a little too much.

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Amen brother. You can do that and still believe in Jesus Christ imo but I hear ya.

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Awful pretentious and a-hole behavior if you ask me

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I agree but if he is actually God does it matter that he's a prentious a-hole? He's still God.

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If you give me a choice: Stay here in heaven and never be born, or be born and risk going to hell. Not even a choice. Yet no one was given a choice to exist.

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I get what you're saying 100% but the choices really are be nothing, or be on Earth with the potential for ever lasting life. Unless you consider heaven an empty void of nothingness. Srill you're right. Many probably would've preferred nothing.

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I pray for you as well.

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I appreciate that...

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develop more fear of him

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Unfortunately, I doubt you have much true fear of Him, especially when above you referred to him as a "pretentious a-hole" along with the bruised, former Catholic in the thread...

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you might have a better understanding of what God is possible of,

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Also, if you knew where I was before I found God to where I am now, you would not doubt my understanding of what God is possible of... I have no doubt His will is done daily and he works in this time as much as he did in the past...

I would encourage you to get away from the prosperity and feel good gospel that is rampant in this world today and truly study God's Word... I will pray that you are led to do so...

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Unfortunately, I doubt you have much true fear of Him, especially when above you referred to him as a "pretentious a-hole" along with the bruised, former Catholic in the thread...

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Oh i do have true fear of him. That's why I believe in him at all, because I fear him. I love how you don't touch on your own fear at all.

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would encourage you to get away from the prosperity and feel good gospel that is rampant in this world today and truly study God's Word... I will pray that you are led to do so...

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How me times are you going to tell me what I believe? It's pretty fricking insufferable at this point. I do not subscribe to "feel good" christianity and if you're going to continue to tell me what I believe you can go frick yourself. Only God can tell me what I eblieve in, and you are not God, so if you have any humility, you will kindly stfu about telling me what I believe Don't even try to say "your words tell me what you believe" you little shite. I tell what my beliefs are DIRECTLY or you have no fricking clue what they are. God Christians like you give Christianity a bad name.

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God had to put Obama in to get the people who hear His voice energized to support a candidate that would turn the tide set in motion by Obama and his ilk....

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That sounds amazing...can't wait for him/her to show up and undo the current travesty

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I admit, I fall short of His Glory and I am far from perfect... However, I have never been hostile when convicted by His Word, well not since I was truly saved...

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Go frick yourself you atheiest, trolling, piece of dog shite.

Also

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Again, I used God's Word to contradict your words and you do not seem to like it

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You haven't used God's words to contradict shite. You've used your opinion of God's words. Humble yourself. You got one massive arse ego.

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You do realize speaking like this drives more people away from the church than it brings in right?

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According to who? Plenty think that it is a touchy, feel good, easy path and as long as you are a "good" person surely God will not send you to hell...

Well brother, that is unfortunately, not how it works...

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your inability to grasp the concept of people having different interpretations is mind boggling

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I understand the concept of interpretation. I'm asking you a direct question about your theology. Do you disagree that the Bible teaches that God is sovereign over all things?

Maybe we have a conflict in our definitions: when I say that God is sovereign, I mean that God can and does accomplish His will apart from any scheme of man or Satan and that what God decrees in His secret will always comes to pass. When I say that God is sovereign, I mean that what God has decreed to happen will happen and that it's not just knowing what will happen, but planning it and accomplishing it.

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No he clearly is. If God can't do something, then he isn't God. According to you, God cannot not choose to inact his power, and is therfore not all powerful. God can be somethibg entirely different than what the bible tells us he is. If you don't believe that, you don't have true fear of God's powers and abilities.

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Wow, I'm truly concerned you have a heretical view of God at this point. I hope it's just ignorance but you should really study some books on the nature of God. Just start with the Westminster Confession of Faith and the larger catechism.

God has limitations. That doesn't mean He isn't God. What God's omnipotence means is that He can do anything He wills to accomplish. God can't lie and He can't cease being God. Those are two common examples of what God cannot do, and that doesn't mean He isn't God. It means your understanding of God is woefully misguided.

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Also, why would God send people to heaven or hell if he choses every single action that they do? That makes no sense and renders christianity pointless.

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What do you think the point of Christianity is? To be free? The Bible says that we're all slaves: we're either slaves to sin or slaves to Christ.

The "point" of our existence is not simply to exist with freedom. Our reason for existence is to glorify God and enjoy Him fully forever. We were created to worship God and to commune with Him.

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No I'm saying there's a point to heaven and hell and that we have free will. You're sayibg we have none and God choses everything for us, which is completely contradictory to the point of judgement.

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I'm saying that God has planned out everything we will do and we "freely" do as God has willed based on our nature(s) and our ability to choose with them. We are told that we lack the ability to do certain spiritual things, such as choosing Christ or living a life of righteousness apart from Christ. If you think we're entirely free to choose anything at all, you're mistaken. Our freedom is bound by our will and our wills our bound by sin.