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re: We're Going To War With Iran - Book It
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:30 pm to BobBoucher
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:30 pm to BobBoucher
One of the ships was a Panamanian flagged ship, not sure about the other.
4
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:32 pm to BIGFOOD
Marshall Islands
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:33 pm to MrLarson
Trump's not putting our kids and finest over there on the ME 'altar' again; it's BS. He will arm up the Iranian's antagonists, and help with bombs/intel and support.
The Iranian People don't want Islamism; just the fanatics. They'll take over from the inside, when the time is right. Wish I could say the same about the poor North Korean Populous; sad tale there.
The Iranian People don't want Islamism; just the fanatics. They'll take over from the inside, when the time is right. Wish I could say the same about the poor North Korean Populous; sad tale there.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:33 pm to BIGFOOD
quote:
One of the ships was a Panamanian flagged ship, not sure about the other.
I edited my post. The Kokuka is Panama listed, but Japanese owned.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:33 pm to BIGFOOD
What flag they fly has zero correlation to the ship’s owner or operator. One of the ships is owned and operated by a Japanese company.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:35 pm to BIGFOOD
quote:
One of the ships was a Panamanian flagged ship, not sure about the other.
Last I saw was
Japanese
Norwegian
As reported by FBN
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:35 pm to RCDfan1950
quote:
They'll take over from the inside
Yea, that didn’t go so well for us the last time the Iranian populace overthrew their government. They didn’t exactly come out of that one more forward thinking and rational.
This post was edited on 6/13/19 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:36 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Well they could actually come to the table, which they have refused to do for 40 years.
They came to the table and negotiated a deal with the West. That deal was torn up almost before the ink was dry.
quote:
Iran is between a rock and a hard place because they insist on funding Hezbollah and other groups. No one made this bed for them. If Iran would come out of its terrorism sponsoring shell, they are objectively a much better hypothetical partner for peace in the Middle East than the gd Saudis.
Agreed, but who is going to make the first overture towards normalizing relations? The last Administration tried their version of that, but this Administration walked away from it. Again, debate the merits of that decision all you want, but from the Iranian perspective they're sitting in the same spot they were under Bush. And now they don't even have an active Iraqi war with which to pursue their asymmetrical pressure.
quote:
That Iran sees their options as limited because they refuse to take a measured, realistic, or rational approach does not excuse tactics like attacking neutral shipping. If they feel froggy, then they should jump. But attacking shipping IS NOT going to improve their suffering under sanctions. If anything, the sanctions will now be even more burdensome and widespread.
They sat down and made a deal in 2015. That deal is no more and sanctions are ramping up. What other avenue do they have to bring about a semblance of pressure on Trump and the Americans in an effort to negotiate some other sort of deal?
quote:
Nothing about this action, if it was indeed Tehran, makes since from their strategic position. There is no win for them here. The West is not going to let them attack ships in the Straight. Period.
They either get bombed off the map overtly by the USA, but I think they've made the calculation Trump won't go for it. They rattle world markets and maybe get some other Western allies to pressure Trump into some sort of backchannel negotiation?
It's clear they could not maintain the status quo with the sanctions, so they lashed out. They either get slapped down for all eternity, or their gamble pays off?
Very little room for something in between.
This post was edited on 6/13/19 at 2:38 pm
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:37 pm to Indefatigable
Liberia used to be the cheap flag of choice.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:40 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
They rattle world markets and maybe get some other Western allies to pressure Trump into some sort of backchannel negotiation?
Oil moved 1%(?) today?
You still promoting OMB
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:41 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
They either get bombed off the map overtly by the USA, but I think they've made the calculation Trump won't go for it. They rattle world markets and maybe get some other Western allies to pressure Trump into some sort of backchannel negotiation? It's clear they could not maintain the status quo with the sanctions, so they lashed out. They either get slapped down for all eternity, or their gamble pays off?
Who has ever been bombed off the map? That isn't going to happen. Not like you are envisioning it.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:42 pm to MrLarson
quote:
Oil moved 1%(?) today?
You still promoting OMB
Are you putting forth that oil tankers blowing up in the Straight will actually be a net positive for the world economy?
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:44 pm to DemonKA3268
quote:
Who has ever been bombed off the map? That isn't going to happen. Not like you are envisioning it.
Ask Sadaam Hussein how it went the last time a Middle Eastern autocrat went toe-to-toe with the U.S. First U.S. solider who crosses the Iranian border means the Ayatollah will eventually be hanging by his neck in Tehran, either from his own people turning on him, or after a trial put on by the provisional government.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:45 pm to MrLarson
What did fat daddy post in the OP
US is now working with Allies to protect ships in the strait.
Iran just shite the bed.
US is now working with Allies to protect ships in the strait.
Iran just shite the bed.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:47 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
They came to the table and negotiated a deal with the West. That deal was torn up almost before the ink was dry.
The deal was torn up because of the secret side deals negotiated by Obama and Kerry that allowed the Iranians to use unfrozen funds to finance Hamas, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood, and other troublemakers around Asia.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:51 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
What other avenue do they have to bring about a semblance of pressure on Trump and the Americans in an effort to negotiate some other sort of deal?
Stop funding Islamist insurrection movements in other countries. I understand what you are saying about the 2015 deal, but that was nothing more than a lazy stop gap to an already existing situation and would never have been a long term solution anyways. Didn’t really do anything but kick the can down the road. So while backing out of it may have been shortsighted, it also doesn’t really change the ultimate outcome here from my point of view.
But the point remains that funding Hezbollah is something they could easily discontinue if they genuinely wanted to normalize relations with the West.
Attacking neutral shipping unprovoked, which gets very close to being an act of war, is just not the right move. In fact it is literally the only thing I can think of outside of bombing Israel that would make their situation worse. This doesn’t put pressure on Trump, it puts pressure on Iran. Europe is not going to tolerate the Strait being unsafe for shipping, and neither is China, Japan, or the rest of Asia. And all of those places depend more on ME oil than we do at present.
Our backing out of the deal does not give Iran carte blanche to use force against neutrals. I’m sure thats what our media will portray, as it puts the President in a negative light, but that is not going to be the position of NATO or the EU.
I don’t see one single POTENTIAL positive outcome that could result for Iran, assuming it is in fact Iran’s doing.
This post was edited on 6/13/19 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:51 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
My point remains
Your point is not totally wrong. This is happening because Trump is president, (It tends to happen more often when Republicans are in control) but not for the reasons you think.
See liberals are pussies when it comes to foreign affairs and usually take the stance of "Maybe if we let the rapist have their way without a fight they wont kill us" where as conservatives take more of a "Don't start no shite and there won't be not shite" stance.
See people and nations that want to take advantage of others don't like it when the don't get their way.
Or think about it like this, A good parent sometimes has to tell the spoiled child No. and when they act up that have to follow through with the punishment or else the child grows up to be a rotten adult.
Liberals never tell the spoiled child no or discipline them. That's why it always looks like conservatives are getting us in trouble when in fact its the liberals weakness that gets us into these situations.
This post was edited on 6/13/19 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:53 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
It's clear they could not maintain the status quo with the sanctions, so they lashed out. They either get slapped down for all eternity, or their gamble pays off? Very little room for something in between.
True.
The Fundamentalist Islamic are very proud of their Religion/People; bowing to Western Civilization (especially Trump) is not in their "something in between" realm of choice either. Hard line Islam running a Nation would be no different that if the Pentecostal version of Christianity were given the reins to govern the USA. Authoritarian rule would be the order of the day; and that will always be met with contempt and ultimate "wailing and gnashing of teeth".
A relatively bloodless Regime change is the best we can hope for. If Obama had supported the youth over there are few years back, it may have happened. But he chose to give the Mullahs their respect (bowing to em') and the nukes to assure relative Military parity and Regime continuity. Problem is, if they are truly serious re their Religion, they will use those nukes to set the (prophetic) table. "Death to America" ain't just whistling Dixie.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:54 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:Yeah, they were really "bombed" off the map. 2 tours in Iraq, guess what? it was and is still there. So, again, who has ever been bombed off the map? I thought you attorney's were supposed to be smart
Ask Sadaam Hussein how it went the last time a Middle Eastern autocrat went toe-to-toe with the U.S. First U.S. solider who crosses the Iranian border means the Ayatollah will eventually be hanging by his neck in Tehran, either from his own people turning on him, or after a trial put on by the provisional government.
Posted on 6/13/19 at 2:55 pm to MrLarson
quote:
They bombed Japanese oil tankers
But they didn't
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