Posted by
Message
Champagne
Crossing the Rubicon.
Member since Oct 2007
41844 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

I never said that.


What did you say, then? You quoted Jesus. He looked directly at Peter and told him "Get you behind me, Satan."

What does that mean if Jesus is not saying that Peter is Satan?

Explain what you meant, please.


Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
48275 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

What did you say, then? You quoted Jesus. He looked directly at Peter and told him "Get you behind me, Satan." What does that mean if Jesus is not saying that Peter is Satan? Explain what you meant, please.


Satan through Peter was trying to get Jesus to not go to the cross, and Jesus recognizing who was behind it and why, called him out.
But my main point was, the man who Catholics think was called the rock in the above verses was called Satan by Jesus just a few passages later. Then later he denied even knowing Jesus.
Doesn’t seem very rock-like.
This post was edited on 6/16 at 9:26 pm


Champagne
Crossing the Rubicon.
Member since Oct 2007
41844 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

And if Jesus showed up today the Pope would have him crucified upside down inside Vatican City on broadcast television.


Have you any evidence to support this conclusion? I'd like to see this evidence. It would really help me, as I strive to learn more about religion and spirituality.

Thanks.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
01
wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
886 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:


What you think isn't worth the time it took to type this out. You discredit the divine inspiration of Scripture by this line of thinking.


If you disagree then that's a great sign.

Your post is obviously false, btw.

Paul's writings were letters to early churches. There is no evidence whatsoever that Paul was supposed to be omniscient, and there is also no evidence that his letters were to be interpreted as directions to all Christians for the rest of time.

Alternate interpretations do not in any way necessarily undermine the idea of divine inspiration.

God could have wanted Paul to write those things and wanted those letters included in the cannon and NOT wanted you to interpret every one of them as being directions to all Christians.


Champagne
Crossing the Rubicon.
Member since Oct 2007
41844 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

Satan through Peter was trying to get Jesus to not go to the cross, and Jesus recognizing who was behind it and why, called him out.
But my main point was, the man who Catholics think was called the rock in the above verses was called Satan by Jesus just a few passages later. Then later he denied even knowing Jesus.
Doesn’t seem very rock like.


Oh, yes, that makes perfect sense - Jesus recognized who was behind it and called him out. But, if I were there, I would have said the same thing as Peter. I would have said, "Lord, I will fight and die before I let them crucify you." That would not have been Satan working in me, that would be me not understanding that Jesus MUST suffer and die in order to Redeem us. BUT, the end result is the same as what you say - both Satan acting and bad faith and Peter or me acting in good faith would have worked to keep Jesus from being crucified.

I mean, I hope that I would fight to keep anybody from being crucified. I hope that nobody gets so confused as to think that Jesus actually thought that Peter was Satan.

As for Peter not acting like much of a Rock, well, I guess he didn't. He might have made up for it later, I suppose. I don't know his life's story. Catholics say that he was a church leader, a leader of the church in Rome and that he was crucified in Rome. I suppose that he might have done some "Rock-like" things later.



wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
886 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

Please show me the woman disciple Jesus picked to follow him or when he suggested that women become pastors or rabbis?


Show me anywhere in which Jesus suggested that any man become a pastor or rabbi. The word "Pastor" only occurs one time in the entire Bible and it didn't mean what it means today, btw.

Jesus treatment of women was very counter-cultural, specifically because he did treat them the same way he treated men.


Champagne
Crossing the Rubicon.
Member since Oct 2007
41844 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

God could have wanted Paul to write those things and wanted those letters included in the cannon and NOT wanted you to interpret every one of them as being directions to all Christians.


I think that's a very good insight. I have never thought of it that way, but, you make a great point.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
00
Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
48275 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

God could have wanted Paul to write those things and wanted those letters included in the cannon and NOT wanted you to interpret every one of them as being directions to all Christians.


Sure, some things in the scriptures where written specifically to address issues going on in the church of those days, but it doesn’t negate it having spiritual applications for later Christians.


Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
48275 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

Catholics say that he was a church leader, a leader of the church in Rome and that he was crucified in Rome. I suppose that he might have done some "Rock-like" things later.


He did. History says he was crucified upside down because he didn’t feel deserving of dying like his Lord.
I’m certainly not knocking Peter, who was a pillar of the early church, and his life after being filled with the Holy Ghost was markedly different than before.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
30
Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
48275 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

Show me anywhere in which Jesus suggested that any man become a pastor or rabbi.


There was no need for Jesus to speak about issues that were already settled practices of the day.
Certainly you know women of Jesus’ day were not treated the equal of men.


wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
886 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

Sure, some things in the scriptures where written specifically to address issues going on in the church of those days, but it doesn’t negate it having spiritual applications for later Christians.


But it doesn't guarantee that it has spiritual implications either. Some things seem like they do and some things seem like they are specific directions to specific churches at a specific time in a specific culture.

For example, is it the most likely explanation that specific hairstyles for men and women have eternal spiritual consequences, or is it more likely that Paul was commenting on not flouting traditional mores of the time and place?


wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
886 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

Certainly you know women of Jesus’ day were not treated the equal of men.


By everyone but Jesus. That's the point.

Again, you seem to be denying that he treated women equally because he didn't tell any women to become rabbis.

That we know of. But we also don't have any record of him telling any men to become rabbis, and the fact that Jesus didn't comment on something doesn't necessarily mean he condoned it. We have no record of his commenting on child rape either. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You have a stronger case for your first objection, but I would point out that the women that Jesus befriended actually proved stronger than the disciples he picked. They were the ones not afraid to visit his tomb, while the disciples (all of them by then) were afraid to be associated with him.

Maybe that's why he picked who he picked for various roles...



Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
48275 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

But it doesn't guarantee that it has spiritual implications either. Some things seem like they do and some things seem like they are specific directions to specific churches at a specific time in a specific culture.


Sure. That’s where discernment and relying on the Holy Spirit is necessary.
One particular story in the Bible that was especially period specific is when the early Christians asked Paul if it was ok to buy meat that was offered to idols and then later sold at the shambles at reduced prices.
We don’t have any such analogous situations as far as I can tell.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
00
Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
48275 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

Again, you seem to be denying that he treated women equally because he didn't tell any women to become rabbis.


Well of course Jesus broke cultural norms by talking to women in ways that weren’t customary, but that was mostly in a capacity of sharing the gospel.
Again, we can only go by those who Jesus chose as disciples as a guide to
Jesus’ feeling on the roles of women in the ministry. Surely Jesus could have chosen one woman as a disciple if he wanted them as leaders of the church.
And we’d also have to believe that God didn’t inspire the disciples under the unction of the Holy Spirit to write the definitions of a woman’s role in the church.
This post was edited on 6/16 at 10:22 pm


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
10
L.A.
New Orleans Saints Fan
Nevada
Member since Aug 2003
57260 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

So one of a few things has to be correct, yes?

1. Either that stuff did come to pass, but Jesus meant something other than how we interpret it

2. Jesus was mistaken that all of that would come to pass

3. Specifically, "This generation shall not pass" meant something different than what we think


Of those possibilities I think the 2nd one is the least likely. I think it's much more likely that we don't understand what he was talking about there than it is that he didn't understand what he was talking about.

So I'm not convinced by that particular passage.

The whole point of revelation (God's revelation) is to make us understand something. The tack you are taking is a cop out, and it undermines the doctrine of Biblical revelation.

I can explain the Old Testament teaching of the unity of God (monotheism) to my 8 year old granddaughter and she understands it.

The church argued for almost 400 years (AD 381, Council of Constantinople) before they agreed upon the doctrine of the Trinity, and no one understands it to this day. The cop out is always "We can't understand God". Well, true, a finite human being cannot fully comprehend an infinite God, but when God sets out to reveal Himself to us, He does it in a way that we're not sill confused about 1,600 years later

Ergo, monotheism is God's revelation of Himself (Cf. the first & second commandments; Deuteronomy 6:4), and the doctrine of the Trinity is a man-made doctrine.
This post was edited on 6/17 at 12:08 am


sumtimeitbeslikedat
LSU Fan
Vidalia, La
Member since Nov 2013
3536 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
BMA is just about the only true staunch conservative association left out there.

You wanna hear the Bible preached straight out of, with no a non-apologetic stance on things like those mentioned, find yourself a BMA churcj


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
10
AlwysATgr
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2008
11748 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

Two questions:

1 - Faith in what?

2 - Saves us from what?


1) Faith in the God the Son - the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 16:30-31a, "He escorted them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved . . ."

2) The wrath of God Almighty in an eternal hell because of your sins against Him. Ephesians 5:6, "Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for God’s wrath is coming on the disobedient because of these things."

Great time to call on Jesus and get saved!


beebefootballfan
Penn State Fan
Member since Mar 2011
14629 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

The church argued for almost 400 years (AD 381, Council of Constantinople) before they agreed upon the doctrine of the Trinity, and no one understands it to this day. The cop out is always "We can't understand God".


I’m a myself, a son, and a brother. I don’t stop being one to become the other. I as myself am the figurehead. God is the figurehead of the Trinity, while also existing as the Son and the Holy Spirit, all at the same time.
This post was edited on 6/17 at 1:15 am


L.A.
New Orleans Saints Fan
Nevada
Member since Aug 2003
57260 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
quote:

I’m a myself, a son, and a brother. I don’t stop being one to become the other. I as myself am the figurehead. God is the figurehead of the Trinity, while also existing as the Son and the Holy Spirit, all at the same time.

Right, but you don't talk to yourself, do you? Jesus prayed to the Father on many, many occasions in the New testament. John 17 is a good example.

You don't say that you are greater than yourself, do you? Jesus said that the Father was greater than he was (John 14:28)

You don't say that the brother part of you knows things that the son part of you doesn't know, do you? Jesus said there were things that he didn't know; that only the Father knew (Matthew 24:36)

What you are expressing, that there is one God who reveals Himself in different modes, is known as Modalism. It was the dominant view of a majority of Christians early in the 3rd century, but by the time of the Council of Nicea in AD 325 had been rejected as a heresy.


beebefootballfan
Penn State Fan
Member since Mar 2011
14629 posts

re: Welp, it's done: the liberals won in the SBC election
Modalism means God stopped being God to become. Jesus, or the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was 100 % man and God. He was there in the beginning, lest you ignore Colossians 1:16. Two beings, separate from each other, being God at the same time.

He’s Triune. Existing as 3 in 1 all at the same time.

Jesus speaking to the Father, doesn’t mean he’s some lunatic or something crazy. Jesus, along with his death bringing salvation, also points us to God and how we can have relationship with him. Such as Luke 11, when Jesus prays to God in the Lords Prayer. Why did Jesus do that? Because the disciples said Lord teach us to pray.




This post was edited on 6/17 at 2:07 am


first pageprev pagePage 10 of 11next pagelast page

Back to top

logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram