re: We should listen when mooslums tell us who they are and their goal!

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Oh good lord. I gave you kudos for admitting that the word meant slave earlier, now you’re backtracking

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OGL all you wish, but to say the term slave back then, meant chattel slavery as we saw much later in history is either dishonest or ignorant. There is no third option.

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Did Jesus ever say this about himself? I believe that Paul mentions something to this effect, but where did Jesus do so?

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Jesus did say
To be first in the kingdom, you must become a slave
He did not exempt himself from that.

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Once

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Good luck.

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Don't' need it.

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Historically as in hundreds of years before America was even founded. It's a lot harder to take that seriously than modern-day Islam.

Historically back talk would also get you beheaded, but you have no problem with that either

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America was founded by people who were persecuted by Christians to the point where they fled Europe and came here to be able to practice freely.

And even then, when it comes to this land you had things like Spanish conquistadors systematically dismantle indigenous religious structure. They executed their priests and all that such.

Do you really want to take an honest look at things?

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This is every worse.

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Worse according to what standard?

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You want to change the preamble of the constitution, which states the entire purpose of the constitution to be a declaration about your religion.

You want to start making declarations about religion and such

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Yes. I have been very open about that. So open about it that I'm surprised that you went the route of misrepresenting me rather than just quoting me. It was easy access, after all. I even did it for you. I'm not hiding what I believe, unlike you.

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fine. I'm voting to ban Christianity.

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Vote all you want, but that would make you a hypocrite, seeing as though you spent the entire thread talking about how you want to uphold the Constitution. I'm being consistent, but you are not.

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Now discuss all the reasons why many believe that it’s pseudepigraphical.

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All? What do you think I am, your fetch dog? Discuss 'em yourself.

Should I think it would matter to you, Boom, the rodent lord, et al, if every single one of them were discussed ad nauseum and shown as inconclusive, that you would become believers in Jesus? Your problem is not intellect; it's your heart.

I'll discuss one. One. Just one. Some question if the Peter of the Gospels/Acts/1 Peter, is the author of 2 Peter because there are differences in grammatical style between 1 Peter and 2 Peter. So what? 1 Peter 5:12 tells us Peter wrote it dia (through) Silvanus. We don't know if Peter employed an amanuensis for 2 Peter. Nor do we know precise dates, provenance, destination, occasion, circumstances and on.

Illustration: ZZ Top began in 1969. They released their second album, Rio Grande Mud in 1972. Raw Texas blues. Now fast forward to 1979. Their album Deguello incorporated horns and some new directions. Same band?

What we (believers) affirm is there is sufficient evidence (internal and external) that render 2 Peter as canonical.

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I know and understand way more than the bible will ever teach you.

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That’s a bold claim. Most people who make it have never actually sat with what the Bible is doing.

It never set out to compete with you on facts, trivia, or “I know more than you.” It claims something far more unsettling: that it already knows you. It says it can divide soul from spirit, expose the thoughts and intentions of the heart, and leave a man standing there with no place to hide. That is a different kind of knowledge than the kind that lets a person feel superior.


So here are some questions that someone with more knowledge than the Bible can answer:

- Why does the universe exist at all instead of nothing?

- Why does anything feel like it matters?

- Why do you still feel the sting of guilt even when no one caught you?

- Why does it feel “good” when you do the “right” thing and no one else knows you did it?

- What makes a moral action right or wrong? (What is right and wrong?)

- Why does death feel like a theft instead of just the next natural event?

- Why do you keep telling yourself stories about how wise, how free, and how self-made you are?


If your understanding really towers over Scripture, those should be simple. If they are not, then the Book you dismissed was never trying to out-smart you. It was trying to tell you who you are when the lights go out and the performance ends.

Knowledge that only inflates the self is cheap. The kind that leaves a man quiet, honest, and a little afraid of what he might actually be is more rare and valuable. That is the kind the Bible keeps offering, whether anyone wants it or not.

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What you said was so ridiculous people don't even believe someone would say it.

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Perhaps most everyone disagrees with me, but you totally misrepresented what I actually said. Those who can’t believe it are right not to believe it, because it didn’t happen.

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You might want to take a look at the oath the US military takes.

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You would vote to violate the 1st amendment in order to protect the country from my religion? Isn’t that what you were protesting against when others like myself wanted to vote to ban Islam to protect this country?

Bold move, Cotton.

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- Why does the universe exist at all instead of nothing?

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Choice

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- Why does anything feel like it matters?

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You accept the world as it is presented to you.

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Why do you still feel the sting of guilt even when no one caught you?

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Because you caught you.

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Why does it feel “good” when you do the “right” thing and no one else knows you did it?

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Because you know.

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What makes a moral action right or wrong? (What is right and wrong?)

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Your effect on other people.

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Why does death feel like a theft instead of just the next natural event?

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I'm not sure what you mean here exactly since I don't feel that way. There are 2 deaths. One of which we will all experience(of the flesh), and I'm assuming that's what you mean.

If you want to go deeper then it's a matter of what you really are. It's really the transition that people fear.

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Why do you keep telling yourself stories about how wise, how free, and how self-made you are?

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I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Are you asking where free will comes from? Not sure what self-made means either.

Would you like me to explain the father-son relationship?

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If your understanding really towers over Scripture, those should be simple. If they are not, then the Book you dismissed was never trying to out-smart you. It was trying to tell you who you are when the lights go out and the performance ends.

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Knowledge of things beyond our perception is understanding. The best way I know to explain it is with math. Where you have the actual understanding of math itself, and then the expression of it. The understanding is universal and the expression is unique to the culture.

Meaning, there is a difference between understanding math and memorizing and accepting that 1+1=2. If you just memorize the 1+1=2 part, or just memorize the scripture, then it's actually worthless to you. You wouldn't be able to recognize 1+2=3 unless specifically written, and you wouldn't be able to pick out 1+1=3 is false.

But some other culture can express the same thing just with other symbols, stories or whatever. Those who understand math can then look at those symbols and see the understanding behind it, while those without understanding will just reject it completely.

And that's where things go wrong. Like when people claim only Jesus and so forth. Jesus is an expression, like the 1+1=2. It's a true thing, but it's not the only true expression. When Jesus talks about "only through him" he's talking about the things he represents. The truth, the way and the light - these are real things.

I was taught to never focus on the symbols, focus on the understanding behind them. Never once was the name Jesus ever mentioned to me, no names at all. The name "Holy spirit" was never once mentioned to me. However, I do see the understanding behind it. I did in fact meet what you would call the "Holy Spirit", and that was followed by the sudden gaining of understanding I speak of.

I know it by function, not by names or labels. Jesus is an archetype, it doesn't matter to me if he every existed or not. If he didn't exist, then whoever wrote it did so from a place of understanding. And again, that is what is actually important.

The way for example is a real thing. Earlier Christians before it was hijacked just called the movement "The way". There is an actual path that must be followed if you ever hope to be part of a society you would think of as "heaven". You have to walk that path. A thief cannot live in a society without theft. It's just not possible. You can not be those things and also be part of the greater.

So these claims of blood salvation, sacrifice and so forth are ridiculous to me. They are completely wrong, they are lies and they are done to prevent people from following the way.

The actual "sacrifice" is that Jesus showed people the way so they could know and follow it, even though he would be killed for it. It's not about the death, you are not saved by that. You are saved by changing and following the way.

And this way is available to everyone because understanding is universal. Not all this - only Christians crap. And not this claim that it's impossible for people to do it.

Would you like to know how forgiveness really works?

You have to follow the way. It's not like I just outright reject scripture, I reject things that distort and misled people.

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Knowledge that only inflates the self is cheap. The kind that leaves a man quiet, honest, and a little afraid of what he might actually be is more rare and valuable. That is the kind the Bible keeps offering, whether anyone wants it or not.

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Did Jesus inflate himself? I think not.