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Message
re: Verdict reached in Arbery trial
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:31 pm to blueboy
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:31 pm to blueboy
quote:
So you think he should still have possession of stuff he stole from previous robberies?
Where did the stuff go? For everyone saying he was a thief, it isn't like he was making things disappear. For me, if the argument relies on his criminal history, as it does in the case of the guy making it, then actually tying something physical, some trail of evidence to plant reasonable doubt, would be a good strategy, no?
0
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:31 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Verdict was spot on.
Agreed.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:32 pm to the808bass
quote:
Reasonable suspicion isn’t enough to effect a citizen’s arrest. The jury instructions were clear.
Making Azkiger even more wrong considering immediate knowledge is a higher standard.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:32 pm to MIZZOU_JP
I’m so glad that Reverend Al had such a glorious victory.
This post was edited on 11/24/21 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:33 pm to blueboy
quote:
He was not a jogger.
They're caught between a rock and a hard spot.
No one has answered my question as to what was more likely because they know the jogger narrative is media bullshite, but they also don't want to admit it because they think they're admitting they were wrong.
You want to argue about the aggression the McMichaels showed in chasing Arbery? Awesome point that out. That's an easy argument to make.
But they think giving one inch means they admit his shooting was justified.
Honestly, following their line of thought, the McMichaels following Arbery and trying to get him to stop, unarmed, and with no one being shot, would be attempting an illegal citizen's arrest and they'd be booked for attempted kidnapping or something similiar.
Some people just aren't that bright.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:34 pm to Azkiger
The jogger stuff doesn't ahve a goddamned thing to do with the verdict.
What the frick is wrong with you people?
What the frick is wrong with you people?
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:34 pm to the808bass
quote:
Reasonable suspicion isn’t enough to effect a citizen’s arrest. The jury instructions were clear.
Yeah but I'm pretty sure this dude brought in this reasonable suspicion idea in the other thread.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:34 pm to crazy4lsu
Law wasn’t on their side on this one. To perform a citizen’s arrest, you have to have witnessed a felony within 24 hours. They probably had the right guy from testimony and video evidence, but that first burden was huge, and the law says they were then attempting to hold someone against their will, and regardless of defending themselves; they murdered someone, while committing a felony…. That’s the law, and it sucks, cause they had the right bad guy….
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:35 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
If the argument that there is a reasonable suspicion of a crime has occurred, having physical evidence is better than no physical evidence to reach the 51/49 threshold that you suggested was what all was needed for an acquittal.
Why are you arguing what sorts of evidence is stronger when all I'm concerned with is the 51/49 split?
Sure, physical evidence would be stronger, but all you need is 51. Did they have 51? That's the conversation to have, not what sorts of evidence is stronger.
You dumb shite....
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:35 pm to auggie
Yeah, this isn’t like the Rittenhouse case. A bunch of inbred idiot rednecks. I don’t care if Arbery was stealing copper wiring from a construction site, that kind of behavior was almost as inexcusable as Rossenbaum’s toward Kyle. Kyle did everything right when he was caught in that situation and these hicks did everything wrong.
This post was edited on 11/24/21 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:36 pm to blueboy
quote:
So you think he should still have possession of stuff he stole from previous robberies?
They have him on video sneaking around the house under construction and in other parts of the neighborhood. He was not a jogger. That's absurd.
Whats absurd is that you lack the ability to comprehend the fact that when pursuing a citizens arrest all past knowledge does not matter. The only evidence that can be used is immediate knowledge of a crime being committed. Unless running down the road is a crime, they didnt have immediate knowledge of him committing a crime. They also admitted they didnt have it.
They couldve saw him shoot a guy in the head 3 weeks before and still wouldnt have had the right to perform a citizens arrest the next time they saw him running.
There are cops for that reason. Citizens arrest exists to stop a crime in progress, not to get vengeance or retribution for crimes past committed. That job is reserved for the legal system
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:36 pm to auggie
How were they each charged with 4 counts of felony murder when there was only one victim? I agree on the guilty verdict, just trying to understand how each defendant had 4 murder charges when there wasn't 4 victims?
This post was edited on 11/24/21 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:36 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The jogger stuff doesn't ahve a goddamned thing to do with the verdict.
Never said it did. I said it had something to do with not a single poster who's slinging around insults answering the question of what was more likely - Arbery is a jogger or he was there trying to steal shite.
80% of the posters in this thread have a significant reading comprehension problem.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:36 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
that kind of behavior was almost as inexcusable as Rossenbaum’s toward Kyle.
This is exactly like that.
Some of these stupid mother frickers are making the lefts point on Kyle and are too retarded to know.
This post was edited on 11/24/21 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:37 pm to Azkiger
quote:
The citizen's arrest law doesn't demand you KNOW that a crime was committed.
The law (former 17-4-60) on the books stated:
quote:
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape,a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds for suspicion.
Even if you can separate the two sentences and not read them in light of one another (which the law usually requires), suspicion under this language requires at least some knowledge that something felonious took place for the suspicion to be reasonable and probable.
They again stated they didn't have any knowledge the deceased had done anything felonious or otherwise that day other than run by them when they decided to affect a "citizens arrest."
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:39 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Sure, physical evidence would be stronger, but all you need is 51. Did they have 51? That's the conversation to have, not what sorts of evidence is stronger.
Well clearly, they didn't, and separating the strength of evidence from the argument itself is insane.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:40 pm to Azkiger
quote:
what was more likely - Arbery is a jogger or he was there trying to steal shite.
That may be fodder for extracurricular discussion of the matter, but "what was more likely" isn't the law. The law requires that the "offense committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge".
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:40 pm to Azkiger
quote:
1.) It matters because it's one of the criteria needed to fulfill a legal citizen's arrest.
2.) His death was the result of him reaching for one of their guns, not because they thought he stole something, so as long as their citizen's arrest was legal his shooting becomes an act of self defense.
3.) In GA entering a building with the intent to steal is a felony. So again, I ask, was his presence in the neighborhood just a jogger or was it reasonable to think he was there trying to steal stuff?
legal citizens arrest requires you use common sense, and assumes
1) crime was immediate
2) of a nature allowing for confinement
you can twist, and turn, and knead, and massage all day. there was no need for those fools to chase that guy waving guns around.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:41 pm to Azkiger
quote:
No one has answered my question as to what was more likely because they know the jogger narrative is media bullshite, but they also don't want to admit it because they think they're admitting they were wrong.
You keep saying that, but it doesn’t make it true. The question you keep posing is. Not. Relevant.
They testified, on the stand, that they didnt have the level of knowledge required for a citizens arrest. Period. That completely removes all consideration whatsoever of what Arbery was doing in the area.
quote:
Honestly, following their line of thought, the McMichaels following Arbery and trying to get him to stop, unarmed, and with no one being shot, would be attempting an illegal citizen's arrest and they'd be booked for attempted kidnapping or something similiar.
Under these facts, with the same testimony, that’s exactly what they would have committed.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:41 pm to Azkiger
quote:
No one has answered my question as to what was more likely because they know the jogger narrative is media bullshite, but they also don't want to admit it because they think they're admitting they were wrong.
The jogger bullshite is a red herring. It has people talking about the wrong things at the wrong time.
Was Arbery a chronic trespasser? Certainly. Was he a wannabe burglar? Probably. We don't execute people for those things and we generally don't inflict great bodily on them for that.
Did the McMichaels have enough information to effect a citizen's arrest? I doubt it. There was just no close connection to even allegedly criminal conduct of Arbery and the reasonable knowledge of the McMichaels. They created a charged environment in which Arbery lost his life. They're criminally responsible for that, although I continue to believe that a manslaughter theory is more in line with what their initial intention was.
They should have photographed him and detailed the encounter for police, not conduct an armed pursuit.
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