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US Tells Russia That NATO May Continue Expansion East, Russia Says It May Use Force

Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:21 pm
Posted by LuckyTiger
Someone's Alter
Member since Dec 2008
45171 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:21 pm
quote:

US Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman has told reporters that Russia’s proposed limit on the expansion of NATO further into Eastern Europe is a “non-starter.” However, she said that progress in talks with Moscow is possible.

quote:

Sherman called this idea a “non-starter,” saying that the US “will not allow anyone to slam closed the door to NATO membership to anyone.”

quote:

Declassified documents have previously revealed that during the dying days of the USSR, Western leaders promised their Soviet counterparts that NATO would not expand into Eastern and Central Europe. However, the US’ current position is that no such promise was ever made, and that NATO’s membership books must remain open – even for states bordering Russia.

quote:

At the core of the dispute is Ukraine. Pro-Western factions in Ukraine aspire to join the military alliance, a move that would put Western troops and arms on Russia’s border. Moscow considers such a situation unacceptable, but NATO leaders insist that Ukraine needs protection from a potential invasion by Russia

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After the meeting, Sherman insisted that Russia must pull back any troops stationed near Ukraine’s border, even though they may be on Russian soil.

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“It is on Russia to de-escalate tensions,” she told reporters. However, talk of military solutions to the standoff have come from both sides, with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg openly suggesting that the West may take military action if talks fail.

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”We have significant capabilities,” he said on Friday. “We have troops, we have forces. We have the readiness. We have the plans to be able to defend, protect all allies … to make sure that we preserve peace in Europe.”

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Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov warned his American counterparts on Monday that some form of military response to the US stationing advanced weapons in Europe could be possible in the future.

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“We are calling on the US to demonstrate a maximum of responsibility at this moment. Risks related to a possible increase of confrontation shouldn’t be underestimated,” Ryabkov said, adding that “significant” effort has been made to persuade the Americans that “playing with fire” is not in their interests.

quote:

Speaking to the media after a day of crucial US-Russian negotiations on security guarantees in Geneva, Ryabkov also said that there has been no progress so far on Russia’s proposals to curb NATO expansion. He said that the ball is now in NATO's court, which, in his words, has to finally make a “real step” toward finding common ground with Russia.

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While the US delegation came to Geneva for “serious” discussions on Moscow’s European security proposals, they failed to show an understanding of how key issues need to be resolved, Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov claimed.

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“We are fed up with loose talk, half-promises, misinterpretations of what happened in different negotiations behind closed doors,” he said, referring to the State Department’s claims in recent days that NATO and the US never promised Moscow that NATO would not expand to the east. “We do not trust the other side, so to speak,” Ryabkov said. “It’s over, enough is enough.”

RT

RT

RT


Imagine if Russia and China formed a military pact and were going to station troops, aircraft, missiles, weapons, spy equipment in Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central American countries. What do you think the reaction of the US government would be?
This post was edited on 1/10/22 at 3:40 pm
Posted by TheFonz
Somewhere in Louisiana
Member since Jul 2016
20361 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:24 pm to
quote:

Imagine if Russia and China formed a military pact and were going to station troops, aircraft, missiles, weapons, spy equipment in Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central American countries. What do you think the reaction of the US government would be?


With this administration? Nothing.
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
26119 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

US Tells Russia That NATO Will Continue Expansion East



This is the stated US position, which has not changed:
quote:

“We will not allow anyone to slam closed NATO’s open door policy, which has always been central to the NATO alliance,” Ms. Sherman said on a conference call with reporters. “We will not forgo bilateral cooperation with sovereign states that wish to work with the United States. And we will not make decisions about Ukraine without Ukraine, about Europe without Europe, or about NATO without NATO.”
This post was edited on 1/10/22 at 4:04 pm
Posted by OchoDedos
Republic of Texas
Member since Oct 2014
34012 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:28 pm to
quote:

US Tells Russia That NATO Will Continue Expansion East

Yeah I'm calling bs on this one. What's left for NATO to pick off...Ukraine?..Moldova?..Belarus ain't happening.

This is just more Russian disinformation to feed to their own uninformed ignorant population to justify an invasion of the Ukraine .
Posted by LuckyTiger
Someone's Alter
Member since Dec 2008
45171 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:35 pm to
quote:

Ukraine
Posted by LuckyTiger
Someone's Alter
Member since Dec 2008
45171 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:39 pm to
You know, you are correct.

A better statement would be US refuses to rule out expansion, not will.

I will edit title.
Posted by Stingray
Shreveport
Member since Sep 2007
12420 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:41 pm to
As long as Biden sents Hunter to the frontlines to fight...
Posted by bad93ex
Member since Sep 2018
27064 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

Imagine if Russia and China formed a military pact and were going to station troops, aircraft, missiles, weapons, spy equipment in Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central American countries. What do you think the reaction of the US government would be?


A strongly worded letter
Posted by NPComb
Member since Jan 2019
27314 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:48 pm to
NATO pushing of Ukraine membership is what's causing the unrest. There has been peace in that region for a long time. This would place NATO squarely in the middle of Russia and one of it's largest sub bases. Warhawk libs and NeoCons RINOS will say different;

However, It's would be like Russia setting up shop in Canada directly between us and Alaska. Whatever response Russia has will be justified. Putin is a bastard and also former KGB. He is not to be trusted but he's also been docile and has not been advancing his politics onto us. In fact China, EU, and the USA are the ones pushing socialism down everyone's throats. I swear this is fricking bizarro world.
:honk:
Posted by 14&Counting
Eugene, OR
Member since Jul 2012
37607 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:50 pm to
quote:

NATO pushing of Ukraine membership is what's causing the unrest. There has been peace in that region for a long time. This would place NATO squarely in the middle of Russia and one of it's largest sub bases. Warhawk libs and NeoCons RINOS will say different;


It was dumb to push NATO right up to the border of Russia. Just begging for a conflict
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
26119 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

It was dumb to push NATO right up to the border of Russia. Just begging for a conflict

I disagree when it comes to the former Warsaw Pact/SSR's that are not ethnically Russian. They wanted in, so they got in. Those countries (Poland, Czechia, Hungary, the Baltic states, etc.) love freedom, pay their share, and would fight alongside us if it came to that. Simply sharing a border with Russia alone should not be a disqualifying factor--such a position only strengthens Russia. For example, Finland is welcome with open arms should they choose to do so.

However, I agree wholeheartedly with you when it comes to the states whose population is primarily or substantially Russian (Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova). Those places are more Russian than parts of Russia, and the Russian ethos is tied to places like Minsk and Kiev in ways that the US simply isn't old enough to relate to.

I don't even consider Georgia to be a real option (2008 NATO opportunistic posturing aside), and would oppose their membership on any number of grounds regardless of Russia's position.
This post was edited on 1/10/22 at 3:58 pm
Posted by boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
80193 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 4:00 pm to
quote:

Imagine if Russia and China formed a military pact and were going to station troops, aircraft, missiles, weapons, spy equipment in Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central American countries. What do you think the reaction of the US government would be?


Cite the Monroe Doctrine and blockade Cuba.
Posted by VBFlorida
Florida
Member since Nov 2020
1337 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 4:03 pm to
Putin laughing his arse off, Biden needs a military conflict,
send all the trans and gays.
Posted by Cajun Tide
North Alabama
Member since Mar 2008
494 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 4:04 pm to
quote:

It was dumb to push NATO right up to the border of Russia. Just begging for a conflict




It's what they want. No conflict no money.
Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
18597 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

Imagine if Russia and China formed a military pact and were going to station troops, aircraft, missiles, weapons, spy equipment in Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central American countries. What do you think the reaction of the US government would be?


Uh does the Cuban middle crisis not ring a bell? How about all the proxy wars in Central and South America during the 80s and 90s disguised as a war on drugs?

Russia has done the same thing and China is doing so economically instead of militarily.
Posted by Decatur
Member since Mar 2007
28719 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 4:08 pm to
If Russia really wants a more chill NATO they’re really going about it the wrong way, no?
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
23675 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

Imagine if Russia and China formed a military pact and were going to station troops, aircraft, missiles, weapons, spy equipment in Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central American countries. What do you think the reaction of the US government would be?

So do you think Russia should be able to dictate to other sovereign nations whether they can join a mutual defense organization for their own protection?
Posted by LuckyTiger
Someone's Alter
Member since Dec 2008
45171 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 4:26 pm to
quote:

Cite the Monroe Doctrine and blockade Cuba.


Exactly.

It wouldn’t be acceptable.
Posted by Mickey Goldmill
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2010
23024 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 4:34 pm to
quote:

After the meeting, Sherman insisted that Russia must pull back any troops stationed near Ukraine’s border, even though they may be on Russian soil.


It's basically a game of chicken. Russia should have every right to have their troops right up on the border if they are on their own soil. Likewise, Ukraine can do whatever they want with troops on their soil- including allowing NATO forces be stationed there.

Neither is a defacto declaration of war on the other.
Posted by LuckyTiger
Someone's Alter
Member since Dec 2008
45171 posts
Posted on 1/10/22 at 4:34 pm to
quote:

So do you think Russia should be able to dictate to other sovereign nations whether they can join a mutual defense organization for their own protection?


There’s a cold, sometimes hot civil war in Ukraine right now between pro west and pro Russia forces that has been going on for some time. There is no consensus within Ukraine to do anything like join nato.

It would be aggressive and problematic for the US and nato to step into that mess.

And I’m just offering a worldview by stepping outside the shoes of an American and pointing out the obvious: that it would be unacceptable to the US and we would wage holy hell if China and Russia began to mass a military presence around our borders, regardless of whether or not Mexico or Cuba or Guatemala decided they wanted to bring them into their countries. We would see it as unstabilizing, threatening, and aggressive, and we would oppose it and fight it through multiple means.
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