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Started By
Message
re: 'Universal' health care will NEVER work
Posted on 3/31/17 at 8:55 am to BamaAtl
Posted on 3/31/17 at 8:55 am to BamaAtl
quote:
Universal health care works in every other OECD country in the world.
It works, but you have people all over Europe that will go to another European country for a certain type of medical ailment. While they have universal health care you still need to go to different countries depending on what type of illness you have because the cost of certain medicines are not competitively priced in those countries.
To further this if it is government mandated it is essentially welfare. Welfare comes from taxes so that is basically what it is. Welfare and multiculturalism is not a good recipe for obvious reasons.
1
Posted on 3/31/17 at 8:56 am to The_Duke
quote:
and the VA is what it is.
Exactly. And that's the problem. Most of the issues with the VA have little to do with the actual healthcare providers, and everything to do with the fricked up entrenched bureaucracy who could give two shits about Vets.
Now expand that to the national level.
frick. No.
...and I say this as a vet who's dealt with the VA.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 8:59 am to Reubaltaich
I get that our govt sucks and that there's no way the federal govt could ever handle something like that. But to say it's never been successful isn't exactly true.
There are a lot of countries that have longer life expectancies than we do with universal coverage. So if nothing else, they are prolonging their citizens lives better than we are.
Is it because of their lifestyles vs ours? Maybe. Or could it be because of their demographics vs ours? Maybe.
But to outright dismiss it isn't exactly truthful.
I could be in favor of a system that's enacted by the state vs the federal govt, if the model was tweaked a bunch.
There are a lot of countries that have longer life expectancies than we do with universal coverage. So if nothing else, they are prolonging their citizens lives better than we are.
Is it because of their lifestyles vs ours? Maybe. Or could it be because of their demographics vs ours? Maybe.
But to outright dismiss it isn't exactly truthful.
I could be in favor of a system that's enacted by the state vs the federal govt, if the model was tweaked a bunch.
This post was edited on 3/31/17 at 9:01 am
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:10 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
There are a lot of countries that have longer life expectancies than we do with universal coverage. So if nothing else, they are prolonging their citizens lives better than we are.
Japan has longest lives and they made it illegal to be fat. I am all for that here
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:10 am to CelticDog
quote:
More guns. $54 billion extra for military.
That money ain't for guns. It's for cool new jets and boats and bombs.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:12 am to CelticDog
quote:
Its only about priorities.
Very true.
Healthcare is a commodity. When you subsidize a commodity, the quality will decrease. When you universally subsidize a commodity, there will be a severe decrease in quality.
It really depends on what you desire - an open system where all are accounted for that is of lower quality OR a closed system that a certain percentage cannot access but is of high quality.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:13 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Is it because of their lifestyles vs ours? Maybe. Or could it be because of their demographics vs ours? Maybe.
That's part of the reason. A country like the Netherlands has more pride in personal responsibility as well. Fewer obese folk. Less incidence of diabetes. And on and on...
The lazy, fat and irresponsible will break the bank here if we try government run healthcare. Not to mention the inefficiencies that come with fed gov.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:14 am to The_Duke
That's enough, David.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:18 am to roadGator
Honestly, if Obamacare were to be rewritten I'd probably be most in favor of the provider subscription model. Pay x amount of dollars a year to access a certain provider's services.
A primary care doctor would be cheaper than a specialist which would be cheaper than a hospital. Let the consumer choose what level of coverage he wants, and the ability to switch if care provided isnt up to par.
A primary care doctor would be cheaper than a specialist which would be cheaper than a hospital. Let the consumer choose what level of coverage he wants, and the ability to switch if care provided isnt up to par.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:23 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
provider subscription model.
Won't work for the same reasons.
No provider is going to want to treat the poor on a subscription basis because of their risk factors.
They'll want to move the suburbs where they are more likely to see a profit.
If you get $200,000 a year to see 100 patients and take care of them would you want the sick/lazy/fat/irresponsible or would you want the compliant and health conscious.
Yeah, you can solve that with more money paid to the doctor with the unhealthy patient population but that just takes us full circle.
The fat/lazy/irresponsible must pay more or the system doesn't work for EVERYONE EQUALLY because we will always pay more for them and we won't like it. Paying more for those that don't give a crap will be seen as a waste of money spent on those that just don't give a shite about themselves.
This post was edited on 3/31/17 at 9:26 am
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:26 am to Reubaltaich
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:27 am to saintsfan92612
Sure. Why don't more people do it?
It's an absolute isht comparison though. Have you seen the economics of Spain's government?
It's an absolute isht comparison though. Have you seen the economics of Spain's government?
This post was edited on 3/31/17 at 9:29 am
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:29 am to saintsfan92612
Why did your meme leave out the fact that most people can't actually do that? 
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:30 am to rocket31
quote:
every single first world country, besides the USA, has UHC and youre suggesting, in every single first world country, their systems are failures?
And every single one of those countries has sub par care when compared to the US.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:31 am to redfishfan
quote:
And every single one of those countries has sub par care when compared to the US.
Not to mention it's really easy to divert most of your tax dollars to healthcare when you don't have to spend anything on your military courtesy of the United States.
I'm looking at you Europe.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:32 am to BamaAtl
quote:
This is untrue and shows a profound lack of understanding about health care.
Every single country with single payer has longer wait times and sub par care when compared to the US. Single payer is just another means of wealth redistribution.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:34 am to Centinel
quote:"Healthcare" is a lot cheaper when you just let grandma die.
Not to mention it's really easy to divert most of your tax dollars to healthcare when you don't have to spend anything on your military courtesy of the United States.
This post was edited on 3/31/17 at 9:35 am
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:36 am to redfishfan
They have better health outcomes generally speaking, with a few exceptions like cancer care. Full stop, their care is not worse than ours, it is likely better.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:36 am to Reubaltaich
Of course it will work, it will just work very poorly.
Here's the effect on different classes:
Rich people: higher taxes, little impact to their medical care
People like you and me: higher taxes, more frustrating healthcare experience, lower life expectancy, increased contact with the dregs of society, less worrying about the costs of health care
Poor people: increased access to major medical procedures.
How many have rolled it back?
Here's the effect on different classes:
Rich people: higher taxes, little impact to their medical care
People like you and me: higher taxes, more frustrating healthcare experience, lower life expectancy, increased contact with the dregs of society, less worrying about the costs of health care
Poor people: increased access to major medical procedures.
quote:
In countries where there is this alleged UHC, it has been a HUGE HUGE failure
How many have rolled it back?
Posted on 3/31/17 at 9:38 am to Cocotheape
quote:
Full stop, their care is not worse than ours, it is likely better.
no....just...no. I mean if their government provided healthcare is so great, why did both my landlords in Germany purchase private supplemental insurance for them and their families? Along with just about every other German I interacted with on a daily basis?
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