- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Ulysses S Grant is the Undisputed GOAT US General
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:55 pm to FlyingTiger1955
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:55 pm to FlyingTiger1955
quote:
He's not even in the top 10. He had an overwhelming advantage in men and supplies.
So who makes the Top 10 then? Please keep in mind that if Grant gets docked by you due to an overwhelming advantage in men and supplies then you have to rule out the following famous military commanders (Army, Navy, and Air Force):
John J. Pershing
Douglas MacArthur
Dwight D. Eisenhower
George S. Patton
Omar Bradley
George C. Marshall
Frank Leahy
Ernest King
Chester Nimitz
Jack Fletcher
Raymond Spruance
Henry Arnold
Curtis LeMay
John Hodge
Matthew Ridgway
Mark Clark
William Westmoreland
Norman Schwarzkopf
Since the mid-19th century, any U.S. military commander in a military conflict generally enjoyed an overwhelming superiority in manpower and material. So with this in mind, just about every general who makes your Top 10 has to be in either the Confederate or Continental armies.
This post was edited on 5/20/21 at 6:59 pm
Posted on 5/20/21 at 7:20 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
His doctrine of 'continuous contact' with Lee during the Overland Campaign wasn't done out of disregard for human life, but rather from looking at Lee's earlier successes and realizing that he had to dictate the terms of the engagement to Lee, rather than react pensively as the Union did in earlier engagements of the war, as the best way to win the war.
This.
Grant's strategy during the Overland Campaign often gets overlooked and mocked, but he did something no other commander before him was able to do - keep Lee away from the initiative. Lee absolutely loved the strategy of an offensive defensive. In that he would let his opponent come to him, wait for a moment to open up, and then strike where and when his opponent least expected it.
Grant successfully prevented that favorite tactic of Lee's by attacking early and often, never giving Lee a chance to recover enough to launch an attack of his own. Lee's counterattack against Hancock's positions along the Brock Road in the Wilderness was the only assault he launched against the Union army during the whole of the Overland Campaign. Which is remarkable when you think about how much Lee loved to attack.
In little more than six weeks, Grant had destroyed half of Lee's army, maneuvered it to a position below the James River, and had laid siege to it at Petersburg. The war was pretty much over at that point. Lee had lost his greatest strength (his mobility) and Grant had pinned him down at a place that Lee could not afford to abandon. From June 1864 and onward it became a question of time.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 7:41 pm to RollTide1987
General Earl Van Dorn was one of the most incompetent officers in the west campaign.
His actions helped the Union take control of the Mississippi and split the confederacy.
His actions helped the Union take control of the Mississippi and split the confederacy.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 6:38 am to RollTide1987
Grant does not give Lee any time to plan in the Overland, he keeps his army in the field and keeps shifting his forces to Lee's left flank constantly. You could batter him, but he just kept coming. Until he basically forces Lee into Petersburg. Once Lee is forced into a purely defensive seige position, it's over and really it should have been over by Christmas 1864.
Grant has Lee pinned by this time. He has overwhelming manpower, he has supply lines that are virtually unmolested.His men are well fed and provisioned. Lee is not and he his bleeding manpower.
You can say " but if Lee had this, or if Lee had done that, or if Jackson wasn't shot at Chancellorsville, etc the South could have won." Well he/they didn't and if they had, it probably would have been worse for the Confederacy. Destruction of infrastructure, A slave population to deal with that would have no doubt risen up against their masters and then out west you would have run into competition for territory from the Union, that was left relatively unscathed in infrastructure and manpower....population was still growing, expansion is still going on and you have Union states on the Pacific.
Grant has Lee pinned by this time. He has overwhelming manpower, he has supply lines that are virtually unmolested.His men are well fed and provisioned. Lee is not and he his bleeding manpower.
You can say " but if Lee had this, or if Lee had done that, or if Jackson wasn't shot at Chancellorsville, etc the South could have won." Well he/they didn't and if they had, it probably would have been worse for the Confederacy. Destruction of infrastructure, A slave population to deal with that would have no doubt risen up against their masters and then out west you would have run into competition for territory from the Union, that was left relatively unscathed in infrastructure and manpower....population was still growing, expansion is still going on and you have Union states on the Pacific.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 10:44 am to dchog
quote:
General Earl Van Dorn was one of the most incompetent officers in the west campaign.
I don't know about that. Most historians rate him as highly competent and fearless, but lacking in administrative abilities. His downfall was his inability to keep his pants zipped. He ended up getting killed by a jealous husband.
This post was edited on 5/21/21 at 10:45 am
Posted on 5/21/21 at 10:47 am to RollTide1987
I suspect Van Dornan was not the only Civil War general with "zipper problems"

Posted on 5/21/21 at 3:12 pm to KiwiHead
One massive problem Lee had was he HAD to defend Richmond. He was tethered to it and everyone knew it.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 3:47 pm to RollTide1987
He was a bad general. He lost battles at Pea Ridge and Prairie Grove when he had the numbers advantage.
Then he lost at the second battle of Corinth and was relieved of his command.
Then he lost at the second battle of Corinth and was relieved of his command.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 7:28 am to The Cool No 9
Eisenhower was without parallel in terms of organization and politics. He was not necessarily a field commander like Patton or Bradley or Monty. That being said his cool head and demeanor were what was needed. He was more of an administrator.
Grant could combine both. He was a quartermaster in a previous stint in the army so he understood supply and logistics and how to control disparate personalities like Sherman, Sheridan and the like....just like Eisenhower with Patton and Montgomery. But Grant was also a field commander who could be flexible with a plan and execute. Ike never really saw the field. Although in exercises before the war at Ft Pike he demonstrated some outstanding field command acumen that actually caught George Marshall's eye.
Ike was perfect for his time and the role that was needed. Grant was what was necessary for his time as well. Both men were underestimated prior to their respective wars. Mac Arthur was the stud prior to WW II. In fact Eisenhower worked for him in the 30's and Mac was somewhat derisive of Eisenhower. Ike had the last laugh though.
Grant could combine both. He was a quartermaster in a previous stint in the army so he understood supply and logistics and how to control disparate personalities like Sherman, Sheridan and the like....just like Eisenhower with Patton and Montgomery. But Grant was also a field commander who could be flexible with a plan and execute. Ike never really saw the field. Although in exercises before the war at Ft Pike he demonstrated some outstanding field command acumen that actually caught George Marshall's eye.
Ike was perfect for his time and the role that was needed. Grant was what was necessary for his time as well. Both men were underestimated prior to their respective wars. Mac Arthur was the stud prior to WW II. In fact Eisenhower worked for him in the 30's and Mac was somewhat derisive of Eisenhower. Ike had the last laugh though.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 9:41 am to Burt Reynolds
US? Robert e lee... world history? Napoleon
This post was edited on 5/30/21 at 10:28 am
Posted on 5/24/21 at 6:53 am to KiwiHead
Fair analysis I have to admit very good opinions. Do you seriously live in NZ are you from the USA
Posted on 5/27/21 at 5:23 am to The Cool No 9
Born in Auckland. American father. Kiwi mum.Came to the States as a kid in 1974. Dad's family is from New Orleans and grew up there.
Posted on 5/27/21 at 10:21 am to Burt Reynolds
quote:
Ulysses S Grant is the Undisputed GOAT US General
Expand that to all flag officers and I'm taking Nimitz and the points.
Posted on 5/27/21 at 10:28 am to KiwiHead
quote:
Grant and Sherman
Ohioans.
Popular
Back to top

0









