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Message
re: Two things can be true at the same time
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:18 pm to Jjdoc
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:18 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
why in the Good case is the agents history is being used.
You mean argued by the DOJ? That's different than it being the legal standard.
quote:
Way off. I just looked it up. My lord man.
I think you're confused and misapplying things. It's Ok.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
You just proved NC, Jimmy, Creeds point.
When people show up to an operation like this. They do set a perimeter. Its not where the arrest is being made.
And the clip you showed is cut. She moved into the street from the side walk....
When people show up to an operation like this. They do set a perimeter. Its not where the arrest is being made.
And the clip you showed is cut. She moved into the street from the side walk....
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:22 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
You just proved NC, Jimmy, Creeds point.
When people show up to an operation like this. They do set a perimeter. Its not where the arrest is being made.
And the clip you showed is cut. She moved into the street from the side walk....
That creates an entirely different incident.
I'll quote Barnes v. Felix for you:
quote:
That inquiry into the reasonableness of police force requires analyzing the “totality of the circumstances.” Id., at
427–428; Garner, 471 U. S., at 9. There is no “easy-to-apply
legal test” or “on/off switch” in this context. Scott v. Harris,
550 U. S. 372, 382–383 (2007). Rather, the Fourth Amendment requires, as we once put it, that a court “slosh [its]
way through” a “factbound morass.” Id., at 383. Or said
more prosaically, deciding whether a use of force was objectively reasonable demands “careful attention to the facts
and circumstances” relating to the incident, as then known
to the officer. Graham, 490 U. S., at 396.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:22 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
She moved into the street from the side walk....
Is she not allowed to be in the street?
I don't see any perimeter set up
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
No. You just totally side stepped the words... exact words feom the SCOTUS.
You posted a 2 second clip. The same thing all of the justices agreed can not be the standard.
What was she doing 5, 10, 20cminutes before?
What was she instructed to do?
quote:
"By limiting their view to the two seconds before the shooting, the lower courts could not take into account anything preceding that final moment... they could not address whether the final two seconds of the encounter would look different if set within a longer timeframe."
quote:
"Earlier facts and circumstances may bear on how a reasonable officer would have understood and responded to later ones... later, 'in-the-moment' facts 'cannot be hermetically sealed off from the context in which they arose.'"
You posted a 2 second clip. The same thing all of the justices agreed can not be the standard.
What was she doing 5, 10, 20cminutes before?
What was she instructed to do?
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:27 pm to SlowFlowPro
Me having to correct y'all lost the focus of the actual discussion.
Nothing in Barnes permits her to be shoved. I already said there is probably enough to detain her.
Nothing in Barnes permits her to be shoved. I already said there is probably enough to detain her.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:28 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
I mean the shoot can be a mistake in retrospect and still legally justified.
Show me where I said otherwise.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:28 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
You posted a 2 second clip.
The incident wasn't much longer. There is no set time standard for how long an incident will be.
quote:
The same thing all of the justices agreed can not be the standard.
Only for THAT case, because the incident was longer.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:29 pm to Powerman
Sure you do see it. Its where those officers moved to and she approached. The arrest was on the other side of the street.
This is policy BTW.
This is policy BTW.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:29 pm to RohanGonzales
quote:
So what you are saying is that anyone who disagrees with you is a "zealot".
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:31 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
This is policy BTW.
We'll see what the investigations show. I'm going to guess these guys aren't going to all just walk away from this.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
Oh ok. So it id your expert opinion that she just magically showed up to this arrest at the time of you clip. She was never there until then.
The truth is you dont know how long she was there nor her actions prior to then.
Show us where she was and what she was doing say 10 minutes earlier?
Because the SCOTUS says your 2 second clip is bs and can not be used alone.
How do you know that was the extent of their encounter with this person?
The truth is you dont know how long she was there nor her actions prior to then.
Show us where she was and what she was doing say 10 minutes earlier?
quote:
"Earlier facts and circumstances may bear on how a reasonable officer would have understood and responded to later ones... later, 'in-the-moment' facts 'cannot be hermetically sealed off from the context in which they arose.'"
Because the SCOTUS says your 2 second clip is bs and can not be used alone.
quote:
Her Exact Words: "To suggest that a three-minute encounter can be fairly judged by its final two seconds is to shortchange the Fourth Amendment’s reasonableness requirement."
How do you know that was the extent of their encounter with this person?
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Until her hands go to her jacket, that's not part of the threat assessment.
Not at all?
How long were you in Law Enforcement again?
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Only for THAT case, because the incident was longer.
Now you are arguing that scotus ruling only applies to a single case. Really? Is that really what you are selling?
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:36 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
So it id your expert opinion that she just magically showed up to this arrest at the time of you clip. She was never there until then.
No. You're trying to focus on irrelevant facts
Extremely irrelevant to the shove, I might add
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:38 pm to CatahoulaCur
quote:
A world exists where ICE are useful, needed, and decent human beings that are doing their job AND the ICE officer made a really big error.
Admitting wrongdoing that the ICE officer acted unjustifiably, does not sour (or should not sour) ICE in general
The problem with this is that I have a functioning brain and memory. I know with certainty that if ICE were allowed to work without obstruction, nobody would die.
I also know that someone dying, is exactly what the extreme left wants because it advances their cause. This is why they put people in harms way. Its why they charge their lunatic religious cult to put ICE in stressful situations. They know that ICE agents are afraid of one of them being a psycho that will start shooting them.
I also know that this is this weird war of information to win the hearts of overemotional women who dont follow politics closely. Truth is not relevant.
So no I reject your premise entirely. ICE are not navy seal assassins who have gone through Batman training. They are normal dudes who want to go home at the end of the day.
Instead I place 100% of the blame on you evil leftists. Yes you are Godless, Satan influence, evil people
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:38 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
Now you are arguing that scotus ruling only applies to a single case. Really?
Those words only apply to that case
The precedent of that case is not specific to the facts of the case. That was actually kind of the point of the ruling, to avoid that sort of dogmatic temporal limitation. The case specifically says each incident is different and the timing of each incident is different.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:41 pm to SlowFlowPro
Nope. You are trying to apply and use what the SCOTUS struck down.
Im focusing on what 9 member of SCOTUS all agreed on.
You are also ignoring the totality comments.
Their encounter with her and anybody else there started the second they showed up and all of those facts must be considered per 9 justices.
Im focusing on what 9 member of SCOTUS all agreed on.
You are also ignoring the totality comments.
Their encounter with her and anybody else there started the second they showed up and all of those facts must be considered per 9 justices.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:46 pm to Jjdoc
He knows. He's just a leftist doing leftist things.
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:47 pm to SlowFlowPro
you do have trouble with concepts in general
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