Started By
Message

re: Two things can be true at the same time

Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:18 pm to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
472979 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:18 pm to
quote:

why in the Good case is the agents history is being used.

You mean argued by the DOJ? That's different than it being the legal standard.

quote:

Way off. I just looked it up. My lord man.

I think you're confused and misapplying things. It's Ok.
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
55570 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:20 pm to
You just proved NC, Jimmy, Creeds point.

When people show up to an operation like this. They do set a perimeter. Its not where the arrest is being made.

And the clip you showed is cut. She moved into the street from the side walk....
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
472979 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:22 pm to
quote:

You just proved NC, Jimmy, Creeds point.

When people show up to an operation like this. They do set a perimeter. Its not where the arrest is being made.

And the clip you showed is cut. She moved into the street from the side walk....


That creates an entirely different incident.

I'll quote Barnes v. Felix for you:


quote:

That inquiry into the reasonableness of police force requires analyzing the “totality of the circumstances.” Id., at
427–428; Garner, 471 U. S., at 9. There is no “easy-to-apply
legal test” or “on/off switch” in this context. Scott v. Harris,
550 U. S. 372, 382–383 (2007). Rather, the Fourth Amendment requires, as we once put it, that a court “slosh [its]
way through” a “factbound morass.” Id., at 383. Or said
more prosaically, deciding whether a use of force was objectively reasonable demands “careful attention to the facts
and circumstances” relating to the incident, as then known
to the officer
. Graham, 490 U. S., at 396.

Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
172368 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:22 pm to
quote:

She moved into the street from the side walk....

Is she not allowed to be in the street?

I don't see any perimeter set up
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
55570 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:26 pm to
No. You just totally side stepped the words... exact words feom the SCOTUS.

quote:

"By limiting their view to the two seconds before the shooting, the lower courts could not take into account anything preceding that final moment... they could not address whether the final two seconds of the encounter would look different if set within a longer timeframe."


quote:

"Earlier facts and circumstances may bear on how a reasonable officer would have understood and responded to later ones... later, 'in-the-moment' facts 'cannot be hermetically sealed off from the context in which they arose.'"


You posted a 2 second clip. The same thing all of the justices agreed can not be the standard.

What was she doing 5, 10, 20cminutes before?

What was she instructed to do?

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
472979 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:27 pm to
Me having to correct y'all lost the focus of the actual discussion.

Nothing in Barnes permits her to be shoved. I already said there is probably enough to detain her.
Posted by Ag Zwin
Member since Mar 2016
26050 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:28 pm to
quote:

I mean the shoot can be a mistake in retrospect and still legally justified.

Show me where I said otherwise.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
472979 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:28 pm to
quote:

You posted a 2 second clip.


The incident wasn't much longer. There is no set time standard for how long an incident will be.

quote:

The same thing all of the justices agreed can not be the standard.

Only for THAT case, because the incident was longer.
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
55570 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:29 pm to
Sure you do see it. Its where those officers moved to and she approached. The arrest was on the other side of the street.

This is policy BTW.
Posted by Ag Zwin
Member since Mar 2016
26050 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:29 pm to
quote:

So what you are saying is that anyone who disagrees with you is a "zealot".



Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
172368 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:31 pm to
quote:


This is policy BTW.

We'll see what the investigations show. I'm going to guess these guys aren't going to all just walk away from this.
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
55570 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:34 pm to
Oh ok. So it id your expert opinion that she just magically showed up to this arrest at the time of you clip. She was never there until then.

The truth is you dont know how long she was there nor her actions prior to then.

Show us where she was and what she was doing say 10 minutes earlier?

quote:

"Earlier facts and circumstances may bear on how a reasonable officer would have understood and responded to later ones... later, 'in-the-moment' facts 'cannot be hermetically sealed off from the context in which they arose.'"


Because the SCOTUS says your 2 second clip is bs and can not be used alone.

quote:

Her Exact Words: "To suggest that a three-minute encounter can be fairly judged by its final two seconds is to shortchange the Fourth Amendment’s reasonableness requirement."


How do you know that was the extent of their encounter with this person?
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
43743 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

Until her hands go to her jacket, that's not part of the threat assessment.


Not at all?

How long were you in Law Enforcement again?
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
55570 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

Only for THAT case, because the incident was longer.


Now you are arguing that scotus ruling only applies to a single case. Really? Is that really what you are selling?

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
472979 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

So it id your expert opinion that she just magically showed up to this arrest at the time of you clip. She was never there until then.

No. You're trying to focus on irrelevant facts

Extremely irrelevant to the shove, I might add

Posted by scottydoesntknow
Member since Nov 2023
10870 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:38 pm to
quote:

A world exists where ICE are useful, needed, and decent human beings that are doing their job AND the ICE officer made a really big error.

Admitting wrongdoing that the ICE officer acted unjustifiably, does not sour (or should not sour) ICE in general


The problem with this is that I have a functioning brain and memory. I know with certainty that if ICE were allowed to work without obstruction, nobody would die.

I also know that someone dying, is exactly what the extreme left wants because it advances their cause. This is why they put people in harms way. Its why they charge their lunatic religious cult to put ICE in stressful situations. They know that ICE agents are afraid of one of them being a psycho that will start shooting them.

I also know that this is this weird war of information to win the hearts of overemotional women who dont follow politics closely. Truth is not relevant.

So no I reject your premise entirely. ICE are not navy seal assassins who have gone through Batman training. They are normal dudes who want to go home at the end of the day.

Instead I place 100% of the blame on you evil leftists. Yes you are Godless, Satan influence, evil people
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
472979 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:38 pm to
quote:

Now you are arguing that scotus ruling only applies to a single case. Really?


Those words only apply to that case

The precedent of that case is not specific to the facts of the case. That was actually kind of the point of the ruling, to avoid that sort of dogmatic temporal limitation. The case specifically says each incident is different and the timing of each incident is different.
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
55570 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:41 pm to
Nope. You are trying to apply and use what the SCOTUS struck down.

Im focusing on what 9 member of SCOTUS all agreed on.

You are also ignoring the totality comments.

Their encounter with her and anybody else there started the second they showed up and all of those facts must be considered per 9 justices.

Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
6941 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:46 pm to
He knows. He's just a leftist doing leftist things.


Posted by Trevaylin
south texas
Member since Feb 2019
10621 posts
Posted on 1/26/26 at 5:47 pm to
you do have trouble with concepts in general
first pageprev pagePage 10 of 12Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram