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Message
re: Trump to sign Executive Order ending birth right citizenship for kids of illegals on Day 1
Posted on 11/7/24 at 2:47 pm to Fun Bunch
Posted on 11/7/24 at 2:47 pm to Fun Bunch
I don't remember. I don't think there was the same legal distinction back in the day.
Also, you still have to show the children are in one of these 2 classes, regardless:
I can put this another way. What is the language in the text of the 14A that requires being in the US legally?
Or, what language excludes children born within the US to persons here illegally?
There are 2 clear exclusions, and no further classes listed. That indicates a finality.
Also, you still have to show the children are in one of these 2 classes, regardless:
quote:
children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign State
I can put this another way. What is the language in the text of the 14A that requires being in the US legally?
Or, what language excludes children born within the US to persons here illegally?
There are 2 clear exclusions, and no further classes listed. That indicates a finality.
0
Posted on 11/7/24 at 2:47 pm to themunch
quote:
Was the birth rite thing for legal immigrants? Children born in the US from legal immigrants.
It’s anyone born in the US
Posted on 11/7/24 at 2:49 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
I am not sure he has that authority. I have no objection, I just thought it would require act of congress.
Hit them.
Before they can respond, hit them again harder.
While they start responding to issue 1, hit them on issue 2.
Flood the zone until they rage.
Flood the zone until they quit.
Flood the zone until you win.
Posted on 11/7/24 at 2:50 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
Correct this has never happened
Jesus Christ, have you not put your head in the oven yet?
Posted on 11/7/24 at 2:51 pm to tide06
quote:
Before they can respond, hit them again harder.
Injunction
quote:
While they start responding to issue 1, hit them on issue 2.
Injunction
quote:
Flood the zone until they rage.
Flood the zone until they quit.
Flood the zone until you win.
Because this worked so well the first time
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Because this worked so well the first time
His own congress and AG were blocking him on these issues in many cases, but you already knew that.
quote:
Injunction
They've expanded presidential powers now and the USSC is a very different beast than when he was being stalled the first time.
Congress: check
AG: check
USSC: check
2025 is not going to be a repeat of 2017.
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:04 pm to SlowFlowPro
So, with that, there is no implied or explicit grant of "birthright" citizenship to guests, aliens, invaders of any source, regardless of their intentions.
If a child is born here of a citizen parent and an alien parent, that child is/should rightly be considered a citizen, regardless of the status of the alien parent.
However, if a child is born here of alien parents, even if here legally, there is no GD good reason to confer citizenship on that child. There is no affiliation, relationship, bond or other legal obligation, IMHO, to do so. In fact, it goes counter to every tradition of citizenship in Western civilization or even others.
Literally no one else does this and it encourages the worst sort of behavior. The fact that it continues is a suicidally empathetic impulse of many in the nation.
If a child is born here of a citizen parent and an alien parent, that child is/should rightly be considered a citizen, regardless of the status of the alien parent.
However, if a child is born here of alien parents, even if here legally, there is no GD good reason to confer citizenship on that child. There is no affiliation, relationship, bond or other legal obligation, IMHO, to do so. In fact, it goes counter to every tradition of citizenship in Western civilization or even others.
Literally no one else does this and it encourages the worst sort of behavior. The fact that it continues is a suicidally empathetic impulse of many in the nation.
This post was edited on 11/7/24 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:06 pm to tide06
quote:
They've expanded presidential powers now and the USSC is a very different beast than when he was being stalled the first time.
When did they expand Presidential powers?
Executive powers were just gutted by the Supreme Court the last session.
Injunctions would take years to get to the Supreme Court.
quote:
2025 is not going to be a repeat of 2017.
If he does stupid shite like OP, it will be.
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:07 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
However, if a child is born here of alien parents, even if here legally, there is no GD good reason to confer citizenship on that child.
Except for the language of the 14th Amendment.
quote:
In fact, it goes counter to every tradition of citizenship in Western civilization or even others.
If you read the case, they do a very in depth historical analysis of English tradition.
quote:
Literally no one else does this and it encourages the worst sort of behavior. The fact that it continues is a suicidally empathetic impulse of many in the nation.
Our Constitution can be amended to change it. It's not impossible.
An Executive Order, though? Based on what power? What legislation or Constittuional section would permit Trump to do this?
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:12 pm to VoxDawg
Trump would lose that case . 14th Amendment is pretty clear. If you are born in the US, you are an American citizen
Want to change it, then get Congress to Act and the states to ratify changing the Constitution.
Too many just want some guy to come in and act like a king with a royal decree. No one wants to pass a law that also binds the NEXT king. . ...to hard of work
Want to change it, then get Congress to Act and the states to ratify changing the Constitution.
Too many just want some guy to come in and act like a king with a royal decree. No one wants to pass a law that also binds the NEXT king. . ...to hard of work
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:29 pm to SlowFlowPro
I’m not sure if you are just being contrarian but you’re just incorrect on the strategy.
If he issued an EO while he pushes congress to act and someone issues an injunction they’re still tying up their limited resources and he’s putting them in a position to have to respond to his actions. In no way is he any worse off than he was before he issued it.
I’d issue 100 injunctions day one just to eat their resources. If 20 go unchecked I’m 20 EOs better than I was when I started and the DNC is burning attorney fees.
All of this can happen in parallel with congressional action.
If he issued an EO while he pushes congress to act and someone issues an injunction they’re still tying up their limited resources and he’s putting them in a position to have to respond to his actions. In no way is he any worse off than he was before he issued it.
I’d issue 100 injunctions day one just to eat their resources. If 20 go unchecked I’m 20 EOs better than I was when I started and the DNC is burning attorney fees.
All of this can happen in parallel with congressional action.
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:34 pm to tide06
So just keep wantonly ignoring the Constitution? But I thought MAGA was all about adherence to the Constitution and governance by the Constitution.
Why are you giving so much cover to Congress and the States not to act?
Why are you giving so much cover to Congress and the States not to act?
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:35 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:To quote an ancient philosopher
No way he can do that on his own
quote:
I've got a pen and a phone
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:37 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
So just keep wantonly ignoring the Constitution? But I thought MAGA was all about adherence to the Constitution and governance by the Constitution.
I’m about winning.
Congress can catch up when they’re ready to get off their thumbs and get something done.
The DNC is on its heels. I want them on their arse and waiting for congress will allow them to regain their momentum and composure.
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:39 pm to RemouladeSawce
Neither of which would mean shite since the 14th is pretty clear about this.
Get Congress involved. They make the law....or at least supposed to.
Get Congress involved. They make the law....or at least supposed to.
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:46 pm to tide06
So your just about losing. Because an EO would have no affect on the States who issue out the birth certificates. An EO is not binding to the next President who can just as easily reverse that order.....if he is so inclined.
An EO can be stayed in Court either at the Federal District level.....or Appeals level. Someone runs over to the 9th and it gets stayed
So what tangible thing do you win?
An EO can be stayed in Court either at the Federal District level.....or Appeals level. Someone runs over to the 9th and it gets stayed
So what tangible thing do you win?
Posted on 11/7/24 at 3:48 pm to TN Tygah
quote:
quote:
Was the birth rite thing for legal immigrants? Children born in the US from legal immigrants.
It’s anyone born in the US
There are carve outs from United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) which is the most commonly cited case in relation to these issues.
One of which mentions that children of invaders are not US citizens...
Posted on 11/7/24 at 4:23 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
Nothing new to add, but to say I don’t visit this board very often because frankly it’s usually a cesspool. Played on the election board a bit and took my lumps since I voted Kamala.
This thread is a good one. Mostly civil discussions and I think I’ve learned good info on the constitution.
??
This thread is a good one. Mostly civil discussions and I think I’ve learned good info on the constitution.
??
Posted on 11/7/24 at 4:30 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
So your just about losing.
Have you ever played chess?
Because it doesn’t sound like you’re thinking strategically at all.
I’ve already explained the inherent advantages to pressing on both fronts.
If you’re too lazy to read it or dense to absorb it I’m done teaching remedial class for GOPe members who don’t know how to win.
Posted on 11/7/24 at 4:57 pm to tide06
I read it. I put you in check on the first move. Go back to elementary school chess club.
EO's are not federal law and do not apply to the states. The States issue Birth Certificates....did the State of Alabama issue yours or did the federal government?
Plus an EO just gives Congress an excuse to do nothing. So you move to the right and my rook just shadows you from 3 spaces away.
Mea n while because the cost of getting a stay at the ninth circuit costs very little, I moved my pawn on your flank hemming you in to an ever smaller corner of your board. Sure you can move inside your stalemate. But I'm keeping my queen in reserve to deliver the kill shot when the Supremes tell you the wording inside the 14th is very clear and you need to go to Congress and the States and get a 2/3 majority.
Take the time move slower and make Congress play this game. Why should they get off being a spectator?
Your way puts you in a lose scenario.
Thanks for playing
EO's are not federal law and do not apply to the states. The States issue Birth Certificates....did the State of Alabama issue yours or did the federal government?
Plus an EO just gives Congress an excuse to do nothing. So you move to the right and my rook just shadows you from 3 spaces away.
Mea n while because the cost of getting a stay at the ninth circuit costs very little, I moved my pawn on your flank hemming you in to an ever smaller corner of your board. Sure you can move inside your stalemate. But I'm keeping my queen in reserve to deliver the kill shot when the Supremes tell you the wording inside the 14th is very clear and you need to go to Congress and the States and get a 2/3 majority.
Take the time move slower and make Congress play this game. Why should they get off being a spectator?
Your way puts you in a lose scenario.
Thanks for playing
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