re: Trump Signs EO To Change The Definition Of Birthright Citizenship

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This is a nonsensical answer.

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Can a foreign spy be taken into custody? Yes. Are they “subject to the jurisdiction” even in your asinine interpretation? No.

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Now, the real question is what did the people who authored the amendment mean when they said “subject to jurisdiction.” If it just means subject to law, how did Native Americans draw the short straw?

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The only adjudication that has been made by this court upon the meaning of the clause 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' in the leading provision of the fourteenth amendment, is Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U. S. 94, 5 Sup. Ct. 41, in which it was decided that an Indian born a member of one of the Indian tribes within the United States, which still existed and was recognized as an Indian tribe by the United States, who had voluntarily separated himself from his tribe, and taken up his residence among the white citizens of a state, but who did not appear to have been naturalized or taxed or in any way recognized or treated as a citizen, either by the United States or by the state, was not a citizen of the United States, as a person born in the United States, 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' within the meaning of the clause in question.

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That decision was placed upon the grounds that the meaning of those words was 'not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance'; that by the constitution, as originally established, 'Indians not taxed' were excluded from the persons according to whose numbers representatives in congress and direct taxes were apportioned among the several states, and congress was empowered to regulate commerce, not only 'with foreign nations,' and among the several states, but 'with the Indian tribes'; that the Indian tribes, being within the territorial limits of the United States, were not, strictly speaking, foreign states, but were alien nations, distinct political communities, the members of which owed immediate allegiance to their several tribes, and were not part of the people of the United States; that the alien and dependent condition of the members of one of those tribes could not be put off at their own will, without the action or assent of the United States; and that they were never deemed citizens, except when naturalized, collectively or individually, under explicit provisions of a treaty, or of an act of congress; and, therefore, that 'Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States, members of, and owing immediate allegiance to, one of the Indian tribes (an alien, though dependent, power), although in a geographical sense born in the United States, are no more 'born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' within the meaning of the first section of the fourteenth amendment, than the children of subjects of any foreign government born within the domain of that government, or the children born within the United States of ambassadors or otehr public ministers of foreign nations.' And it was observed that the language used, in defining citizenship, in the first section of the civil rights act of 1866, by the very congress which framed the fourteenth amendment, was 'all persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed.' 112 U. S. 99-103, 5 Sup. Ct. 44-46.

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It’s very clear to people who want to ignore what the people said who wrote the 14th amendment.

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There's a Supreme Court case from not long after it was written that goes into detail on the issues.

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There's a Supreme Court case from not long after it was written that goes into detail on the issues.

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Wong Kim Ark always has been shite. I

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They acknowledge there what the original meaning of “subject to jurisdiction” was when the amendment was passed and then say “frick it, we don’t care.”

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Do you think there's the slightest possibility that that was taken into account when this EO was drafted? I

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Just to put this to bed. There are two types of diplomats, white list and blue list. White list diplomats have blanket immunity, blue list diplomats have limited immunity (only when they are acting on official business.)

They were given that immunity from congress. To date congress has never given illegal immigrants immunity. So nothing changes with how anyone interprets the 14th amendment since the 14th doesn't grant immunity to any group of people.

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The real object of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution, in qualifying the words 'all persons born in the United States' by the addition 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' would appear to have been to exclude, by the fewest and fittest words (besides children of members of the Indian tribes, standing in a peculiar relation to the national government, unknown to the common law), the two classes of cases,—children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign state,—both of which, as has already been shown, by the law of England and by our own law, from the time of the first settlement of the English colonies in America, had been recognized exceptions to the fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the country. Calvin's Case, 7 Coke, 1, 18b; Cockb. Nat. 7; Dicey, Confl. Laws, 177; Inglis v. Sailors' Snug Harbor, 3 Pet. 99, 155; 2 Kent, Comm. 39, 42.

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Do you think there's the slightest possibility that that was taken into account when this EO was drafted? I mean... c'mon, SFP. You know Trump has constitutional attorneys who, it pains me to say, are likely quite a bit more intelligent than even you are, that wrote the dang EO.

Or do you think Trump sat down and typed it up himself? Or said... "I don't care. Do it anyway".??

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