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re: Trump now looking into South Africa white genocide / land theft

Posted on 8/23/18 at 8:26 pm to
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 8:26 pm to
quote:

uhhhh guys, do we really know if this is true or trump assumes it is true based upon what he saw on tv? sure, SA is seizing land but it is not true that farmers are being killed as implied. there is unrest there but before we jump on this lets make sure it is true.
The data says that about 1200 Boer farmers have been killed since the end of apartheid. That is about five per month. The consensus is that the majority of these deaths have been the result of “routine” robberies/burglaries at isolated “easy targets,” because portable property is always missing, but it is certainly possible that some of them are part of a scheme of terrorism to frighten farmers into selling their property.

The realistic possibility of Uncompensated Expropriation is quite recent. “Willing Buyer / Willing Seller” has been government policy for land reform since the first election after apartheid, so MAYBE some of these murders were intended to “encourage” more farmers to become “Willing Sellers,” but no Black “terrorist” group has taken “credit” for such attacks.
This post was edited on 8/23/18 at 8:41 pm
Posted by VOR
Member since Apr 2009
63641 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 8:28 pm to
Who is compiling the “data”?
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 8:32 pm to
quote:

Who is compiling the “data”?

The data that I saw came from an Afrikaner rights group called ”Afriforum.”
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
124493 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 8:34 pm to
quote:

sure, SA is seizing land but it is not true that farmers are being killed as implied


SA farmers are most definitely being murdered. It’s a fact
Posted by VOR
Member since Apr 2009
63641 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 8:34 pm to
Of course not. I do question the reports that you guys accept as truth so easily. You’re the ones who want the worst to be true so that you have ammo to demean black Africans. If white farmers are being murder systematically, it is a horrible and savage crime, but the whites were not exactly benevolent rulers of the black citizens.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
261333 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 8:38 pm to
quote:

but the whites were not exactly benevolent rulers of the black citizens.


Well, there's no such thing as a benevolent ruler

I have no problem with white people abandoning All of Africa.
Posted by LouBega
Member since Dec 2017
999 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 8:41 pm to
Jesus lol
Posted by MISSOURI WALTZ
Wolf Island, MO
Member since Feb 2016
749 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 9:40 pm to
Posted by 10MTNTiger
Banks of the Guadalupe
Member since Sep 2012
4139 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 9:43 pm to
quote:

People still go hunting in Zimbabwe


Yes and it is a mere shadow of the incredibly diverse and game rich country it once was, as Rhodesia.
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 9:58 pm to
There's not mass killing of farmers or genocide in SA. You guys are idiots.

Posted by Bokke
Salt Lake City, UT
Member since Nov 2014
771 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 10:01 pm to
Willfully ignorant people that could easily find the real numbers should they choose to.
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 10:05 pm to
Here's what's really happening:

quote:

President Donald Trump tried Thursday night to move the conversation away from his former lawyer implicating him in federal crimes by tweeting out a common talking point of white nationalists and neo-Nazis.


quote:

For nearly 50 years, starting in the late 1940s, the black Africans who make up the majority of South Africa’s population were subjected to an official government policy of institutionalized political and economic discrimination and strict racial segregation by the white European minority who ruled the country under a system known as apartheid. (In practice, discrimination against black Africans had gone on for hundreds of years before it ever became official policy.)

Among many, many other infringements on their basic rights, black South Africans were legally barred from living on, operating businesses in, or owning land in vast swaths of the country that were set aside for whites only. By the time apartheid formally ended in 1994, nearly 90 percent of all land in the country was owned by whites — despite the fact that they made up just 10 percent of the population.

Land reform efforts aimed at remedying this situation began when apartheid ended. But after nearly 25 years, the huge disparity hasn’t gone away: A 2017 auditby the South African government found that whites still owned 72 percent of private farmland in South Africa.




quote:

In 2016, the country’s parliament passed a bill allowing for “the expropriation of property for a public purpose or in the public interest, subject to just and equitable compensation.” In other words, the government could legally force white landowners to give up their land in return for a fair price. The land would then be redistributed to black South Africans.

But that process, too, has been slow — and people are getting tired of waiting. Support for a small, far-left political party that advocates for nationalizing allland in South Africa has been growing.

So now, with elections looming next year, the ruling African National Congress (ANC) party has decided to take more drastic action: amending the constitution to make it legal for the government to seize land withoutproviding compensation.

That move is being welcomed by many in the country, but not everyone is convinced it’s a good idea. Some, including investors, worry that it could trigger a catastrophic economic crisis like the one that occurred in neighboring Zimbabwe when it enacted similar reforms in 2000. There, rapid land seizures panicked investors, causing them to flee the market in droves. That led to massive hyperinflation and food shortages that effectively collapsed the country’s economy: Experts put the cost to Zimbabwe’s economy at around $20 billion.

But another group of people — including white nationalists, neo-Nazis, and members of the alt-right in Europe and the United States — see the South African land expropriation plan as much more than a potential economic misstep: to them, it’s a full-scale genocide against the country’s white minority.




quote:

There’s just one problem: The story isn’t real. There is no evidence of a widespread campaign of violence and murder targeting white farmers in South Africa.

As journalist Lynsey Chutel with the news outlet Quartz Africa reported in detail in June, white farmers have historically been the victims of violent attacks in South Africa — though it’s not always clear whether an individual attack was motivated by racial animus or simply because white farmers are “Isolated and believed to be wealthy.”




quote:

Moreover, Joe Walsh at the New Statesman found that murder rates in South Africa’s affluent, predominantly white suburbs are far lower than murder rates in the poor, predominantly black townships. “If there was any kind of genocide being carried out against white people in the country then the safest areas of the continent’s most dangerous city would not be predominately white,” Walsh wrote in May.


quote:

After a peak in 2001/2002, the number of farm attacks—rape, robbery and other forms of violent crime short of murder—has decreased to about half,” Chutel wrote. “Similarly, the number of murders on farms peaked in 1997/1998 at 153, but today that number is below 50.”


[quote]LINK ]
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54753 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 10:12 pm to
quote:


Yes and it is a mere shadow of the incredibly diverse and game rich country it once was, as Rhodesia.


Can you back that up? Rhodesia hasn’t been around for 40 years so I would think there’s been significant change beyond farm expropriation. I know a guy that recently hunted there and I have a guy that works for me who’s on the htown safari club board. I’ll ask them.
Posted by northshorebamaman
Cochise County AZ
Member since Jul 2009
35519 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 10:15 pm to
quote:

Moreover, Joe Walsh at the New Statesman found that murder rates in South Africa’s affluent, predominantly white suburbs are far lower than murder rates in the poor, predominantly black townships.

Well, no shite. Those townships have some of the highest murder rates in the world. And, furthermore, the white neighborhoods are basically fortified. You can check it out on street view. Gee, I wonder why they're fortified?





This post was edited on 8/23/18 at 10:33 pm
Posted by AbuTheMonkey
Chicago, IL
Member since May 2014
8018 posts
Posted on 8/23/18 at 11:22 pm to
quote:

So now, with elections looming next year, the ruling African National Congress (ANC) party has decided to take more drastic action: amending the constitution to make it legal for the government to seize land withoutproviding compensation.

That move is being welcomed by many in the country, but not everyone is convinced it’s a good idea. Some, including investors, worry that it could trigger a catastrophic economic crisis like the one that occurred in neighboring Zimbabwe when it enacted similar reforms in 2000. There, rapid land seizures panicked investors, causing them to flee the market in droves. That led to massive hyperinflation and food shortages that effectively collapsed the country’s economy: Experts put the cost to Zimbabwe’s economy at around $20 billion.

But another group of people — including white nationalists, neo-Nazis, and members of the alt-right in Europe and the United States — see the South African land expropriation plan as much more than a potential economic misstep: to them, it’s a full-scale genocide against the country’s white minority.


Yea, that's more than a little disingenuous.

"Investors" fled because they knew that the country was becoming an unstable shithole, and the people replacing the white farmers had not the first fricking clue as to what they were actually doing. Remember, you're talking about a country - Zimbabwe - that went from one of the world's great agricultural exporters to a place with a third of the people starving in the span of a generation. Let's chalk that up a little more than "investors panicking".

And what happened in Zimbabwe wasn't genocide, but it was ethnic pushing and intimidation that was disastrous for everyone involved. Now you have a faction of the South African government spouting the same nonsense that Mugabe and his henchmen were spouting thirty years ago. You don't think that should raising some alarms?
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