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Message
re: Trump has it right on the economy. Tariff-hating "conservatives" are clueless
Posted on 11/18/25 at 7:47 am to longtooth
Posted on 11/18/25 at 7:47 am to longtooth
quote:Animosity indeed. The US extended the world the favor of asymmetric import restrictions for 80yrs at our own expense. Eventually favors become expectations. It's human nature.
the increased animosity between the U.S. and nations like Canada probably aren’t helping.
When those expected favors are pared back at some point, and animus ensues, which is the party at fault? Who's to blame for the animosity ... the generous party, or the one expecting generosity and becoming angry when the gifts are scaled back?
0
Posted on 11/18/25 at 7:52 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
That’s what actual logic requires.
The fact that you posted that article tells me what you understand about logic, but if you want to defend the contradiction I pointed out take a shot.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:04 am to frogtown
quote:No.
You have two choices(1) lower corporate taxes and regulations. (2) the other is tariffs.
In a situation (hypothetical or not) where revenue is necessary, taxes are requisite. Lowering corporate taxes has to be balanced with increased revenue elsewhere.
Now if you want to argue for smaller government, a balanced budget, and fiscal restraint, I'm all in. But for the foreseeable future, smaller government, a balanced budget, and fiscal restraint isn't in the cards.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:07 am to NC_Tigah
U.S. COMPANIES RESHORING / EXPANDING PRODUCTION BACK IN THE U.S.
These are all explicitly documented as bringing manufacturing back to the U.S. or shifting production here from abroad.
GE Appliance Park (GE Appliances)
Walmart
Hubbardton Forge
Zentech
Ford
Newell Brands
American Giant
Jones Plastic & Engineering
Abbott
Apple
Chobani
Cra-Z-Art
Johnson & Johnson
IBM
Merck
Nvidia
Niron Magnetics
Waterlogic
Todd Shelton
Sources for these include the Reshoring Initiative’s company list and case studies, plus recent reporting on specific reshoring moves like Newell moving Sharpie production to Tennessee and American Giant shifting apparel to U.S. plants, as well as CBS coverage of firms expanding domestic production.
---
FOREIGN COMPANIES MOVING MANUFACTURING INTO THE U.S. (FDI)
These are foreign-headquartered firms that have announced or begun building/expanding manufacturing facilities in the United States.
TSMC
Samsung
Hyundai Motor Group
Honda Motor
Nissan
Volkswagen / Audi
Stellantis
AstraZeneca
Roche
Sanofi
Novartis
GSK
Novo Nordisk
Cipla
CSL
Air Liquide
Lavazza
Inventec
These are drawn from recent Reuters and CBS reporting on foreign automakers, chipmakers, and pharma companies adding U.S. plants or major manufacturing expansions in direct response to tariffs and supply-chain risk
These are all explicitly documented as bringing manufacturing back to the U.S. or shifting production here from abroad.
GE Appliance Park (GE Appliances)
Walmart
Hubbardton Forge
Zentech
Ford
Newell Brands
American Giant
Jones Plastic & Engineering
Abbott
Apple
Chobani
Cra-Z-Art
Johnson & Johnson
IBM
Merck
Nvidia
Niron Magnetics
Waterlogic
Todd Shelton
Sources for these include the Reshoring Initiative’s company list and case studies, plus recent reporting on specific reshoring moves like Newell moving Sharpie production to Tennessee and American Giant shifting apparel to U.S. plants, as well as CBS coverage of firms expanding domestic production.
---
FOREIGN COMPANIES MOVING MANUFACTURING INTO THE U.S. (FDI)
These are foreign-headquartered firms that have announced or begun building/expanding manufacturing facilities in the United States.
TSMC
Samsung
Hyundai Motor Group
Honda Motor
Nissan
Volkswagen / Audi
Stellantis
AstraZeneca
Roche
Sanofi
Novartis
GSK
Novo Nordisk
Cipla
CSL
Air Liquide
Lavazza
Inventec
These are drawn from recent Reuters and CBS reporting on foreign automakers, chipmakers, and pharma companies adding U.S. plants or major manufacturing expansions in direct response to tariffs and supply-chain risk
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:09 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
The Federal Reserve is fighting the wrong battle.
BY DESIGN.
Since 1913 the INTERNATIONAL BANKER-OWNED Feral Reserve has been fraudulently designed by and for Bankers, the wealthy elites and Wall St to utterly demolish Middle Class wealth. All they've done is devalue the USD.
quote:
The real goal today is simple: stabilize debt-to-GDP and then slowly reduce it.
Any "goal" to "fix" anything is myth and illusion.
The Feral Reserve flooded the US money supply during "Covid" with 6 TRILLION in printed Monopoly money, creating runaway inflation. There is no real "solution" on the table -- "Tariffs" is mere smoke & mirrors misdirection.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:19 am to RiverCityTider
quote:Yep.
U.S. COMPANIES RESHORING / EXPANDING PRODUCTION BACK IN THE U.S.
These are all explicitly documented as bringing manufacturing back to the U.S. or shifting production here from abroad.
quote:
The positive relationship between tariffs and unemployment isn’t even disputed. Or so I thought? I guess you’re disputing it.
---
Much of tariff theory is built around their 19th and early 20th century use, which was in turn tied to gold-standard protectionism.
Re-shoring efforts and trade rebalance are new premises. So, yes, there is a dispute.
In fact, in a situation where revenue is necessary, and juxtaposing tariffs vs corporate taxes as a revenue option, an argument attempting to tie greater unemployment to tariffs is going to get eviscerated.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:20 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
They know America is no longer an industrial powerhouse.
You start off with something incomprehensibly stupid that frames your entire argument within that stupidity
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:24 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
THE MULTIPLIER WE LOST
America grew fast when we made things here. Every factory dollar ran through whole towns and came back again. One dollar turned into five. That multiplier drove high growth, rising wages, and stable debt.
When we offshored production, that multiplier vanished. Money now leaves the country as soon as we spend it. A service economy can’t replace that. Services spend a dollar once. Industry spends it many times. That is why growth fell, wages stalled, and debt exploded.
See, the multiplier effect measures how much additional economic activity is created when you spend one dollar.
In manufacturing, every $1 flowing into a plant, supply chain, or industrial project creates $3 to $7 in total economic activity.
In services, every $1 usually creates $1.10 to $1.20 at most.
Growth drops from 4 or 5% to 2%.
See, the board rooms that exported our industry didnt consider all this. They only cared about their short term profits.
You do realize that most of the big corporations running things are American, right, which keeps that multiplier effect going juts in a different manner. And the cost savings on goods creates its own multiplier in more advanced (which means more profitable, scalable, and less likely to be taken) economic endeavors, right?
Raising the prices by inefficiently forcing lower level/inefficient manufacturing back home will stop diverting that savings delta to the areas we want/need to invest in. This will devolve our economy and SOL, actually pushing us behind (which you false claim as your premise that ignores reality).
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:24 am to EphesianArmor
quote:Very true.
There is no real "solution" on the table
Certainly anyone promoting tariffs as a real solution to $2T/yr deficits and a $38T debt is living in fairytale land.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:25 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
In a situation (hypothetical or not) where revenue is necessary, taxes are requisite. Lowering corporate taxes has to be balanced with increased revenue elsewhere.
That can be achieved if your economy is built on advancement and growing the advanced sector of the economy.
That cannot be achieved if your economy is focused on devolution, like the tariff-manufacturing hypothesis.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:26 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Certainly anyone promoting tariffs as a real solution to $2T/yr deficits and a $38T debt is living in fairytale land.
Well they shouldn't as those are 2 separate issues.
Tariffs are meant to target our trade deficit.
The public spending deficits are only tangentially related to trade deficits.
However, the MAGA/AF messaging has conflated the 2
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:27 am to Penrod
quote:
If tariffs don’t cause higher consumer prices then how could cutting them lower prices?
The whole argument that tariffs can bring manufacturing back without raising prices just ignores basic logic and math.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:29 am to stuntman
Thats bs.
Dude, we have history backing it up. You globalists have a history too. It is of massive jobs lost. Massive change in economy.
Before you, people could afford a home and not be 30 years in debt. You cite the cost of living as a trophy. A badge of honor as if getting paid 20 per hour working at Sonic is great.
The libatarian mindset ruined this nations ability to be self sufficient
Dude, we have history backing it up. You globalists have a history too. It is of massive jobs lost. Massive change in economy.
Before you, people could afford a home and not be 30 years in debt. You cite the cost of living as a trophy. A badge of honor as if getting paid 20 per hour working at Sonic is great.
The libatarian mindset ruined this nations ability to be self sufficient
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:29 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The public spending deficits are only tangentially related to trade deficits.
However, the MAGA/AF messaging has conflated the 2
Yeah, because Trump conflated the 2.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:31 am to Jjdoc
quote:
It is of massive jobs lost.
Job shifting, to better jobs...for those who make good decisions at least
quote:
Massive change in economy.
Advancement and improvement of the economy, yes.
quote:
Before you, people could afford a home and not be 30 years in debt.
That's an issue of RE inflation due to government policy (similar to tariffs, in a way) purposefully inflating RE along with choosing a bad outlier economy post-WW2.
quote:
The libatarian mindset ruined this nations ability to be self sufficient
HOLY shite
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:You know why tariffs were so important in the gold standard economy?
However, the MAGA/AF messaging has conflated the 2
The identical foundational premise applies in a fiat world. Currency printing simply obscures it.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:How's that worked for GenZ?
Job shifting, to better jobs...for those who make good decisions at least
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You do realize that most of the big corporations running things are American, right, which keeps that multiplier effect going juts in a different manner. And the cost savings on goods creates its own multiplier in more advanced (which means more profitable, scalable, and less likely to be taken) economic endeavors, right?
Raising the prices by inefficiently forcing lower level/inefficient manufacturing back home will stop diverting that savings delta to the areas we want/need to invest in. This will devolve our economy and SOL, actually pushing us behind (which you false claim as your premise that ignores reality).
Most of the savings from offshoring never flowed back into the American economy. They went into buybacks, executive pay, and more overseas investment. Consumers got cheaper stuff, but the country lost skills, factories, and supply chains, which is why one disruption nearly broke everything.
Calling domestic production “inefficient” misses the point. It only looks that way if you ignore national security, resilience, engineering depth, and the ability to control the technologies of the future. Once you count those, keeping manufacturing here is the efficient choice.
The idea that we can innovate by sending all the foundational work overseas hasn’t worked. You cannot keep the brains when you export the hands. Countries that make things lead, and countries that only consume eventually fall behind.
A factory isn’t just a building that makes stuff. It’s a living organism of engineers, machinists, process experts, suppliers, and constant incremental upgrades. Once it’s gone, all of that is gone. And the part people never think about is this: factories don’t stay old. They modernize. They automate. They robotize. They get better year after year. The learning curve compounds.
When you shut one down or ship it overseas, you don’t just lose today’s jobs. You lose the entire arc of future innovation that would have come from keeping that ecosystem here. The breakthroughs, the upgraded machines, the engineers trained by hands-on work, the robotics vendors that cluster around it, the next generation of processes are gone forever.
That’s why offshoring isn’t just a cost decision. It erases the future we would’ve built.
This post was edited on 11/18/25 at 8:35 am
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:39 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
How's that worked for GenZ?
They're facing a crunch of bad policy supporting GenX/Boomers in various ways, specifically the chickens of the post-2009 Crash government policies coming home to roost.
GenZ and Millennials just were on the wrong side of variance in terms of timing. That's why they say luck is when preparation meets opportunity. The opportunity hasn't presented itself in a rational way, on the whole, unlike what other generations were presented with.
It happens. The generation that got lucky to live in the Gilded Age instead of the Civil War era had similar luck.
Posted on 11/18/25 at 8:44 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Most of the savings from offshoring never flowed back into the American economy.
You are doubling down on incorrect assertions.
America is the best manufacturing economy in the world.
The efficiency of lower prices from manufacturing built our tech, finance, etc. industries.
quote:
They went into buybacks, executive pay, and more overseas investment.
Look at Mr. ANTIFA over here
Gonna talk to me about your Lord and Savior Global Warming, next?
quote:
but the country lost skills, factories, and supply chains,
We still have all of those things.
You realize we are the #2 manufacturing country by total and top 10 in per capita, right? The only reason we're not #1 in manufacturing output is because #1 has almost 3x the population that we do and they are a less developed economy.
Y'all have to ignore basic facts and reality to create this strawman podium from which to scream your bad economic policies.
quote:
The idea that we can innovate by sending all the foundational work overseas hasn’t worked.
a. This is a strawman, again. You're using mistruths as foundations
b. Are we not the most advanced and innovative economy in the world? Even with your faulty premise, you're wrong.
quote:
You cannot keep the brains when you export the hands.
Explain how we've done it, then, in your own misguided paradigm.
Or are you about to triple down on dishonesty and pretend we're not?
quote:
Countries that make things lead, and countries that only consume eventually fall behind.
Well it's a good thign we have the best manufacturing economy in the world, without a close #2, isn't it?
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