- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: .
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:16 pm to bod312
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:16 pm to bod312
quote:
Why would we be using income to define financial health when in reality it many times is not a good indicator of the financial health of a household?
In case you just came out of a coma and are not aware, the United States taxes income not wealth.
Wealth is difficult to tax and some European countries tried it but abandoned it as it was not very efficient.
The most efficient form of taxation is a VAT or sales tax but we are stuck with the income tax here in the States.
0
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:16 pm to jclem11
quote:It can be if we base it on Muh Feels!
I think we can all agree that $200K income, which is top 5% in the country, is not "middle class" by any stretch and most certainly not in Lake Charles of all places.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:18 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
It can be if we base it on Muh Feels!
For alleged "muh facts don't care about your feels" boys they sure are all up in their feels today and defensive as frick about being told they are in fact rich.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:19 pm to Taxing Authority
He's also not controlling for state and local taxes and cost of living differences amongst those salary ranges. It doesn't make sense to aggregate income of 330 million people it's so unscientific. Averages mean virtually nothing with no context
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:20 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
But we were talking about taxes. We don't tax "financial health". Nor could we. As noted it's a completely subjective measure.
That is true. He was also complaining about not getting a stimulus because he could use the money. It wasn't all just about taxes but about distribution of benefits.
Using 2019 income to justify if someone really needs money during this pandemic is not a very good way. I don't know of any practical way to do a different means testing but how much money did they save by not just giving it to everyone?
Going back to the definition of middle class, calling someone middle class based on a single year's income is BS. You cannot tell if someone is middle class by just 1 year's income.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:24 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:
He's also not controlling for state and local taxes and cost of living differences amongst those salary ranges. It doesn't make sense to aggregate income of 330 million people it's so unscientific. Averages mean virtually nothing with no context
100% agree. My bigger issue is when someone thinks they put context on the cost of living but really don't. Using cost of living of a state is just plain stupid. There are plenty of fairly cheap places in California to live. There are also some very expensive places. It should be based on a more localized level but that takes more work. There is also a difference between absolute lowest cost of living in an area versus the quality of that life. You could live cheaply in NOLA but your quality of life will suck. You can live in NOLA with a good quality of life but it will cost you (private tuition, less crime area to live, etc.)
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:28 pm to bod312
The demographics make up of the localized areas also matter (age mostly). Most of these income studies don't account for tax breaks, tax credits, transfer payments and other tax payer benefits the target group recieves. I'm not pretending that the lower and middle class aren't struggling to obsorb the inflation our federal government causes though. It's becoming ridiculous in some of these cities. We need to get rid of the income tax completely but it'll never happen.
This post was edited on 7/28/20 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:30 pm to Tigerlaff
Same.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:35 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:Absolutely. But people look at our tax base and say: "the rich" don't pay enough. In reality, they are paying for almost all of it. And the fact that it's not enough... isn't evidence they don't pay enough. It's evidence our government is too big.
I'm not pretending that the lower and middle class aren't struggling to obsorb the inflation our federal government causes though. It's becoming ridiculous in some of these cities.
quote:I don't think there's any method of funding that will supply enough money in a sustainable manner for what government currently does, nor how much the democrats will expand it. The method isn't the problem. The spending is the problem.
We need to get rid of the income tax completely but it'll never happen.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:39 pm to bod312
quote:We've covered this. The flaw is he thinks he's "getting his money back". In reality, he's getting money from his (future) children. It's all deficit spending. He should be glad he's not getting any. He'll be paying for it later--just like his current student loans that he feels is making him poor now.
He was also complaining about not getting a stimulus because he could use the money.
quote:I'm not sure how else you'd do it. You have to draw the line somewhere. Most people's income doesn't vary that much. One of the many reasons it's used for the tax base.
Going back to the definition of middle class, calling someone middle class based on a single year's income is BS. You cannot tell if someone is middle class by just 1 year's income.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:43 pm to Taxing Authority
Ya, exactly but it's never getting better than it was in 2019 lol the Fed is begging Congress for help and they'll give it to them.
You can fix income disparities by taking away the paternal aspects of government we have but our culture is to far gone to accomplish that.
You can fix income disparities by taking away the paternal aspects of government we have but our culture is to far gone to accomplish that.
This post was edited on 7/28/20 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:43 pm to bod312
quote:
It is a great talking point from certain people but in general the higher your overall income the higher % you pay in taxes.
The higher your regular income. Not the higher your investment income.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:45 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Median income for 2019 was ~$75k.
Pretty sure that's median "household income." BLS data suggests median individual pay was ~$39K in 2019. So if a household has 2 working adults, how much do you think each person makes individually? I was talking about individual income.
quote:
You aren't very good at math are you? Do you know what percentile means?
I said the number is lower each year. I should have said the inflation-adjusted number is lower. Wages, adjusted for inflation, have actually fallen since the 1970s. Average weekly earnings peaked in early 1970s at around $345, and are currently at about $315 in 1982-1984 dollars. LINK
So, I'll ask again, do you consider a household with two adults making combined $100K (i.e. two adults with $50K jobs) "upper class"? Keep in mind the median income for a dental hygienist is more than $50K, so two median dental hygienists could get you to that number easy.
This post was edited on 7/28/20 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:46 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Absolutely. But people look at our tax base and say: "the rich" don't pay enough. In reality, they are paying for almost all of it. And the fact that it's not enough... isn't evidence they don't pay enough. It's evidence our government is too big.
quote:
We've covered this. The flaw is he thinks he's "getting his money back". In reality, he's getting money from his (future) children. It's all deficit spending. He should be glad he's not getting any. He'll be paying for it later--just like his current student loans that he feels is making him poor now.
I understand this but his stimulus check (if he were to get one) doesn't effectively change how his kids will be effected. His kids are being effected whether he gets a check or not so he might as well at least get the benefit on the front end. I would support none of this stimulus but if the government is going to hand it out I sure would like to be included. Those are my thoughts, can't read the OP's mind on that.
quote:
'm not sure how else you'd do it. You have to draw the line somewhere. Most people's income doesn't vary that much. One of the many reasons it's used for the tax base.
I provided net worth as the determination. I think it is a better indicator of current financial standing but I understand it doesn't impact taxes. The OP is in the top 5% of earners but his net worth is presumably in the bottom 50% (<$100K).
This post was edited on 7/28/20 at 3:51 pm
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:49 pm to jclem11
quote:
You just cannot engage with the data and the simple fact that things outside of one's control have direct, material impacts on their outcomes in life. Period.
I never claimed that. It's just that everything you listed is within a person's control except for being born in the US, which was conceded long before your post, multiple times. Changing your name is probably the easiest of all. Not sure why it makes you mad to point that out.
quote:
Good job being pedantic. Real big brained move there.
Look, Einstein, if the answers you asked for and got are not the answers you want, maybe try asking better questions.
quote:
Those who are the most confident tend to be the most ignorant. You are fully displaying your ignorant today friend.
I'm not the one who asked a bulleted list of questions and is now wetting my pants because the answers didn't go the way I wanted it to.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 3:49 pm to the808bass
Dude's right. 200k ... hell 120k for me is rich. I have enough for one house and building a small house in the middle of Colorado with plenty to spare. I have everything I need but it would be good to not have to carry the country on our backs though. Super rich don't pay taxes and the ones who get the stimulus don't pay anything at all.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 4:08 pm to Steadmans Cheddar
quote:That is hourly wages. Not income.
Pretty sure that's median "household income." BLS data suggests median individual pay was ~$39K in 2019
HUD says...
quote:Nothing suggest $39k, or anywhere near that.
The median family income for the United States is $75,500 in FY 2019, an increase of five percent
compared with the national median income for FY 2018.
quote:Wages != income. And income did not peak in the 70s. (2018 dollars)
Wages, adjusted for inflation, have actually fallen since the 1970s. Average weekly earnings peaked in early 1970s at around $345, and are currently at about $315 in 1982-1984 dollars.
> quote:That's roughly 69th percentile. But that's a far cry from the $53k you tried to strawman me with earlier.
So, I'll ask again, do you consider a household with two adults making combined $100K (i.e. two adults with $50K jobs) "upper class"?
This post was edited on 7/28/20 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 7/28/20 at 4:11 pm to bod312
quote:Net worth is a terrible measure. Illiquid assets are no good for feeding you or paying rent.
I provided net worth as the determination. I think it is a better indicator of current financial standing but I understand it doesn't impact taxes.
quote:Not likely. Very few people could write a check for $1,000 tomorrow if they needed.
The OP is in the top 5% of earners but his net worth is presumably in the bottom 50% (<$100K).
Posted on 7/28/20 at 4:19 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
I never claimed that. It's just that everything you listed is within a person's control except for being born in the US, which was conceded long before your post, multiple times. Changing your name is probably the easiest of all. Not sure why it makes you mad to point that out.
Holy frick you are dense. Please tell me how you chose your month and place of birth, health status and height and level of intelligence? I'll wait.
You are completely refusing to admit that luck plays a role in the outcomes in life. This is truly amazing to witness.
This always happens when these threads pop up.
Posted on 7/28/20 at 4:21 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
The median family income for the United States is $75,500 in FY 2019, an increase of five percent compared with the national median income for FY 2018.
Oh look, FAMILY INCOME of $75,500.
quote:
Nothing suggest $39k, or anywhere near that.
What happens when you divide $75,500 by 2? You get...….$37,750!!! Maybe that suggests that individual income is close to $39K!
quote:
Wages != income.
You're right, you can earn income in lots of other ways. Too bad the vast majority of Americans basically have a tax form that lists W-2 wages and not much else. Unless I'm forgetting some of the millions of people whose income is under $50K who are getting K-1s from their partnerships and LLCs.
Page 10 of 13
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News