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re: .
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:24 am to EKG
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:24 am to EKG
quote:
People disproportionately die in cars from floods
I see a federal law coming eventually saying car seats have to made with floatable materials that one can easily be unzipped and used as a life saving device.
Estimated cost to vehicle - at least two grand. Hide and watch.
1
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:34 am to The Baker
Since apparently you can't read the other threads where this is already explained, I'll try here...
The main problem: There are over 6 million people in the Greater Houston area.
In order to get these people out you would have to contraflow every single eastern, western and northern road leaving the area for at least 50-100 miles.
The mayor of Houston is just that: the mayor of Houston. His declarations carry no force of law for the surrounding municipalities, counties nor the state police (all of which would need to be highly cooridinated for such a grand scale of evacuation).
Setting up a mass evacuation would tax emergency personnel to the limit, leaving none to help in rescue efforts.
Raised interstates were flooding as early as Saturday. Considering the Governor didn't even issue an evacuation order until Friday (within hours of landfall) this means that -at best- there would have been thousands of people stranded on roadways both in vehicles and having to have fled vehicles that were traffic-locked in flooding roadways.
Under the best of circumstances it would take at LEAST a week to evacuate that many people (and that's being generous because we're talking about moving ~ 1M people per day).
But let's say you do it, you get 6+ million people evacuated. Where do you put them?
Anyone bitching about the lack of a forced evacuation hasn't taken the time to sit down and do the actual math, especially in accordance with the time window.
The main problem: There are over 6 million people in the Greater Houston area.
In order to get these people out you would have to contraflow every single eastern, western and northern road leaving the area for at least 50-100 miles.
The mayor of Houston is just that: the mayor of Houston. His declarations carry no force of law for the surrounding municipalities, counties nor the state police (all of which would need to be highly cooridinated for such a grand scale of evacuation).
Setting up a mass evacuation would tax emergency personnel to the limit, leaving none to help in rescue efforts.
Raised interstates were flooding as early as Saturday. Considering the Governor didn't even issue an evacuation order until Friday (within hours of landfall) this means that -at best- there would have been thousands of people stranded on roadways both in vehicles and having to have fled vehicles that were traffic-locked in flooding roadways.
Under the best of circumstances it would take at LEAST a week to evacuate that many people (and that's being generous because we're talking about moving ~ 1M people per day).
But let's say you do it, you get 6+ million people evacuated. Where do you put them?
Anyone bitching about the lack of a forced evacuation hasn't taken the time to sit down and do the actual math, especially in accordance with the time window.
This post was edited on 8/28/17 at 9:46 am
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:35 am to The Baker
Ask anyone who lived through the "evacuation" ahead of Rita. This was a storm that was, at one point, bigger than Katrina (just a few weeks earlier) and headed straight for Houston. The whole town started evacuating, and it became a clusterfrick. My wife and kids spent 10 hours in a car and got 25 miles away before turning around and heading home. The Randall's strip center across the highway became a refugee zone of more people who just gave up or ran out of gas.
If the storm had hit like Katrina, those people would have been exposed and desperate. No matter how charitable I wanted to be, the images of Katrina looters had me (for the only time in my life) considering armed defense of my home. Seems a hysterical response now, but it didn't at the time.
As it was, the storm died down and made landfall 90 miles away. The state did learn lessons about enacting contraflow on the major arteries, but I don't think that would have made a huge difference. You simply can't move 3 million people in 24 hours, and you run a high risk of making it much worse by having people exposed where their progress stops.
Live through one of these things and you won't sound so dumb when you comment on them. (At least that's what I'm hoping about myself here.)
If the storm had hit like Katrina, those people would have been exposed and desperate. No matter how charitable I wanted to be, the images of Katrina looters had me (for the only time in my life) considering armed defense of my home. Seems a hysterical response now, but it didn't at the time.
As it was, the storm died down and made landfall 90 miles away. The state did learn lessons about enacting contraflow on the major arteries, but I don't think that would have made a huge difference. You simply can't move 3 million people in 24 hours, and you run a high risk of making it much worse by having people exposed where their progress stops.
Live through one of these things and you won't sound so dumb when you comment on them. (At least that's what I'm hoping about myself here.)
This post was edited on 8/28/17 at 10:02 am
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:41 am to Ag Zwin
What about selective evacuations? That pic of the nursing home was unbelievable that they were left in place.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:47 am to Good Times
There will always be some failures/tragedies...there is no perfect call.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:48 am to The Baker
Another fine job of MMQB'n. Proves one thing. You can't fix stupid.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:53 am to Good Times
quote:
What about selective evacuations? That pic of the nursing home was unbelievable that they were left in place.
Moving people with health issues is more tricky and time-consuming. They would have needed to have been evac'd by Thursday or Friday.
Another aspect of this is that Houston was in the same mindset we had in pre-Katrina New Orleans. It's hard to fathom a storm like this, especially when anything even in the ballpark of it continues to miss you.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:55 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
I see a federal law coming eventually saying car seats have to made with floatable materials that one can easily be unzipped and used as a life saving device.
Estimated cost to vehicle - at least two grand. Hide and watch
You forgot to mandate the eject button and emergency detachable roof.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:56 am to cwill
no perfect call
Never asked for perfection. All the money and time for emergency prep by city leadership, should be able to compile lists of the most vulnerable. Let's start there.
It reminds me of all the school busses parked after Katrina. Assets and planning go a long way to minimize the situations that are so heartbreaking and tragic.
Never asked for perfection. All the money and time for emergency prep by city leadership, should be able to compile lists of the most vulnerable. Let's start there.
It reminds me of all the school busses parked after Katrina. Assets and planning go a long way to minimize the situations that are so heartbreaking and tragic.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 10:03 am to Good Times
That singular photo has been used so many times, the photog could be a rich person, had s/he been able to charge for its usage.
I guess it's not a surprise, due to the shocking nature of the image.
But I'm not yet sure how I feel about it having become the "face" of this storm.
Clearly the owner/management of that facility misread the threat.
But it isn'tindicative of the life-saving successes that have characterized the overall rescue efforts.
From all I've seen (granted, it's early), help has arrived--from neighbors and good samaritans--for those most in need.
That's not to say businesses and homes haven't been destroyed--they have.
But to the best of my knowledge, people haven't been abandoned en masse, as was the case with those at the assisted living facility.
And for the record, selective evacuations did occur.
Thankfully, many of those who stayed behind have been the driving forces behind the rescue and recovery efforts.
I guess it's not a surprise, due to the shocking nature of the image.
But I'm not yet sure how I feel about it having become the "face" of this storm.
Clearly the owner/management of that facility misread the threat.
But it isn'tindicative of the life-saving successes that have characterized the overall rescue efforts.
From all I've seen (granted, it's early), help has arrived--from neighbors and good samaritans--for those most in need.
That's not to say businesses and homes haven't been destroyed--they have.
But to the best of my knowledge, people haven't been abandoned en masse, as was the case with those at the assisted living facility.
And for the record, selective evacuations did occur.
Thankfully, many of those who stayed behind have been the driving forces behind the rescue and recovery efforts.
This post was edited on 8/28/17 at 10:04 am
Posted on 8/28/17 at 10:44 am to Good Times
quote:
Never asked for perfection. All the money and time for emergency prep by city leadership, should be able to compile lists of the most vulnerable. Let's start there
You're focused on a single photo and trying to spin up finger pointing.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 10:50 am to EKG
quote:
Right now everyone's just trying to rescue those who need help
I wish we could have done that in August 2005.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 10:51 am to cwill
quote:
You're focused on a single photo
No matter the disaster, no matter the preparedness... you will ALWAYS be able to find at least one photo to use to start finger pointing... and somebody always will.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 10:56 am to The Baker
He was unwilling to because
1. Most of them had no place to go for a week. And some had no money for hotels. Not enough hotels in Austin waco, san antonio for 2.5 million.
2. He was not advised to.
If he evacuated and it hit Beaumont orange port arthur or l.c, laffy instead, he looks a fool.
This way, oh my its a 500 yr storm.
Just saw earlier post in which the logistics are made clear.
1. Most of them had no place to go for a week. And some had no money for hotels. Not enough hotels in Austin waco, san antonio for 2.5 million.
2. He was not advised to.
If he evacuated and it hit Beaumont orange port arthur or l.c, laffy instead, he looks a fool.
This way, oh my its a 500 yr storm.
Just saw earlier post in which the logistics are made clear.
This post was edited on 8/28/17 at 10:59 am
Posted on 8/28/17 at 10:59 am to SSpaniel
quote:
Houston mayor explained it pretty well
But he didn't tell you everything; last Wednesday he called Nagin in cell block C and Nagin said "frick it, you're good, no evac needed."
Posted on 8/28/17 at 11:03 am to CelticDog
quote:The very idea that the mayor is the one to make that call all by himself is ridiculous. The weather data and 90% of the resources are at the state and federal level.
2. He was not advised to.
Are we to believe that the governor and president are working on plans and evacuations for Corpus Christi and Galveston but ignoring the city of Houston?
Same thing with the passing of the buck in Katrina.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 11:28 am to Good Times
quote:
What about selective evacuations? That pic of the nursing home was unbelievable that they were left in place.
“When we have hurricanes, we know who to evacuate, because you have a storm surge coming, and we have that down to a very fine art. In this case, we have a rain event. Unless you know where the rain is going to fall, we don’t know who to evacuate.”
Posted on 8/28/17 at 12:21 pm to EA6B
I know I may sound cold here, but no way I would watch TV, waiting for some dumb arse politiction to tell me whether to evacuate or not. They were predicting these rain totals days before the storm. I would have been long gone.
Note - does not take away the fact that my heart goes out to those suffering through this right now. Can't imagine the nightmare they're in currently.
Note - does not take away the fact that my heart goes out to those suffering through this right now. Can't imagine the nightmare they're in currently.
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