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re: Thoughts on vaccines?
Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:28 pm to Sweep Da Leg
Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:28 pm to Sweep Da Leg
quote:I love anecdotal evidence.
PS. I’ll add I have two and the first was vaccinated the second wasn’t. The first is sick every month at least once. The second got foot and mouth at daycare and that is the ONLY time he’s been sick. He gets a cold once a year and it goes away in a day or two.
I’m fully vaccinated and I never get sick. I am also exposed far more than the normal person.
Seems like the vaccines are working.
My cousin’s child is unvaccinated, malnourished, developmentally delayed.
My anecdotal evidence cancels yours out.
This post was edited on 8/26/25 at 4:30 pm
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Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:31 pm to RedStickFox
quote:
you think about it your question can be summarized as "why do you care about other people?".
Because the people that benefit are flawed people and at some point it will become corrupt. It's just like everything else, it's the tower of Babel. If Jesus administered the vaccines I would agree they should be mandatory but they're not.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:34 pm to Schleynole
quote:
If the vaccines work then the people that have vaccines can't get the infectious disease. If they work the vaccinated are not at risk so why does it matter if someone isn't vaccinated. If they don't work what's the point.
Preventing illness entirely is called "sterilizing immunity" and not all vaccines do that (for a variety of reasons), but vaccines also "work" when they keep people from getting the worst complications of disease and protecting other people who can't be vaccinated for their own health reasons. E.g., the mRNA vaccines reduced your chances of dying by about 10x. What was challenging socially was a 10x reduction may be almost trivial to you personally if you have no risk factors, but it's massive if you have a lot of risk factors and it can be (and was) massive at a population level.
This post was edited on 8/26/25 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:34 pm to Schleynole
quote:
Then why an std vaccine at 5 hrs old?
Have you seen how much Merck donates to politicians?
Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:39 pm to Schleynole
quote:
If the vaccines work then the people that have vaccines can't get the infectious disease.
Not the way it works. There is a chance of infection even with vaccination. It is just smaller with vaccination. In some cases, there is a very low chance. And this is highly dependent on the pathogen. With some pathogens, the argument is that early vaccination will prevent a patient from acquiring the disease, which will prevent the possibility of some terrible sequalae. In the cases of certain pathogens, like measles, outside of the chance of hospitalization and death, the complications can range from prolonged immune suppression (termed immune amnesia) to encephalitis (specifically a subtype that develops years after initial infection). In the case of something like Hep B, it is to prevent some serious long-term complications such as Hepatocellular carcinoma. H. influenzae vaccination helps prevent epiglottitis, which can lead to airway compromise and possibly death.
quote:
If they work the vaccinated are not at risk so why does it matter if someone isn't vaccinated. If they don't work what's the point.
If someone is vaccinated, it doesn't mean that the pathogen is eradicated. The pathogen still exists. Because humans live in a population, this means that infection in one person or one group can be transmitted to another group with slightly different antigenic material. Basically, your body makes highly specific antibodies dependent on the antigenic material certain cells present. It makes antibodies for every antigen it encounters. This means that with some pathogens, small differences between antigenic elements can lead to disease. In addition, some pathogens are highly infective and need high rates of vaccination in order to keep them from infecting more people. Measles is one such pathogen. I believe Pertussis is another.
In addition, vaccination protects people who are immunocompromised as well as protects pregnant women and their fetus. It's just a fact of human biology that our immune systems are linked in this way. Vaccination is an elegant solution in the fact of treating each infectious disease individually, which would be utterly terrible.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:42 pm to Schleynole
quote:
Then why an std vaccine at 5 hrs old?
Hep B? Because there is a large likelihood of vertical transmission from possibly infected mothers, in addition to the lifelong benefits of not getting hepatitis B.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:43 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
crazy4lsu
Another person that is not allowed to comment on vaccines
Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:46 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
Holy schitt are you the silly azz look-at-me Covid expert with the bald guy in your sig from back in the day?
Lol. You mean fricking Gandhi?
quote:
An FYI, HIV was spread, in part, by unprotected sex and IV drug abuse, i.e. NOT “living a healthy lifestyle”
Again, you didn't appear to understand why it was a disease in the 20th century or what that means.
Certainly, there are several more pathogens that did not care about your lifestyle, healthy or not. We controlled several and eradicated one of the major ones. Another major pandemic, the Influenza Pandemic of 1918, also didn't care, as it seemed to affect younger populations.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 4:47 pm to texag7
quote:
Another person that is not allowed to comment on vaccines
I comment on them every time I'm in clinic little man.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:00 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Your body is making those antibodies anyway. Because you are always dealing with antigenic material. Much of it won't result in anything, this line of resource trade-off is nonsensical.
Well doesn't the immune system have finite resources? And new specific antibodies have to go through clonal expansion, right? Which may not even be necessary in a natural infection as evidenced during Covid with the lack of seroconversion in some people who were exposed or infected.
Also, with mRNA vaccines the antibody titers generated were 10-20 times greater than with a natural infection. This seems like a big deal, no? It also appears it was unexpected as LabCorp had to raise the upper limit on their spike antibody test from 2,500 to 25,000 units in 2022.
According to ChatGPT -
quote:
Producing and maintaining very high levels of antibodies requires substantial metabolic resources. When the adaptive immune system is highly activated—such as during repeated or strong antigen exposure—it can affect other areas of the immune system.
This includes:
Suppression of innate immune responses, especially through regulatory cytokines that prevent overactivation but may also dampen early defense against unrelated pathogens.
Immune cell exhaustion, where chronically stimulated B and T cells become less responsive or dysfunctional.
Skewing of immune response types, potentially reducing effectiveness against intracellular infections or impairing immune surveillance of cancer cells.
Increased risk of autoimmune mechanisms in genetically predisposed individuals due to heightened immune activity.
Competition for biological resources, which can impact overall immune system balance and function.
These effects are not guaranteed in every individual but are biologically plausible and supported by immunological mechanisms and evidence from vaccine and infection studies. They highlight the need to consider immune system balance, not just stimulation.
Is this bad AI info?
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:07 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Because there is a large likelihood of vertical transmission from possibly infected mother
The mother's are tested, doesn't matter.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:10 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
Is it ok to just say I generally don’t trust these things, and don’t feel like pumping my kids with unlimited vaccines for every possible disease known to man? Are our immune systems not allowed serving a purpose any longer?
Why not pick a couple of skeptics, like RFK Jr, and avoid the vaccines he says to avoid?
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:16 pm to moneyg
quote:
It’s ok to acknowledge that you were wrong about some things related to COVID. I’d have a lot more faith in doctors who would speak openly on the subject.
Please enlighten me…what was my position on COVID? I don’t post that much here, so should be easy for you to find in my history.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:17 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:Come on now. An infected mother is something one would be well aware of, well in advance. No?
Hep B? Because there is a large likelihood of vertical transmission from possibly infected mothers
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:19 pm to idsrdum
quote:
Well doesn't the immune system have finite resources? And new specific antibodies have to go through clonal expansion, right? Which may not even be necessary in a natural infection as evidenced during Covid with the lack of seroconversion in some people who were exposed or infected.
The amount of ATP required for the polymerization of antibody heavy and light chains probably doesn't amount to very much, not least the amount of the amount of ATP produced by 1 mole (or 180 grams) of glucose. In terms of the thermodynamics, it isn't a very cost intensive operation for the body. And again, your body is doing this anyway, as it is always dealing with antigenic material. That antigenic material is literally everywhere, and humans would not have become as robust without at least this minimum energy expenditure.
In other words, the amount of resources that antibody production requires is not significant enough to worry about it.
quote:
Is this bad AI info?
It isn't necessarily bad info, but it lacks context. The metabolic resources required for every human body operation is so intensive that humans had to invent several systems upon systems in order to maximize human potential. We are not short of the ability to produce more metabolic resources, and the body has several methods of obtaining energy in serious disease states if needed. It really isn't the case that in regular people, immune activation for diseases that the body could actually encounter would deplete metabolic reserves meaningfully so that overall immune function would be affected. From a evolutionary standpoint, there is no way mammals would have survived in as many diverse environments as they have if the immune system operated in a way that encountering a disease state would decrease its capacity to withstand other infections. In evolutionary terms, that wouldn't be a very robust system and certainly not one that would lead to increased fitness over generations.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:19 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Not the way it works. There is a chance of infection even with vaccination. It is just smaller with vaccination.
Congrats. You just confused a vaccine with a preventive. Under your definition, vitamin C is a vaccine.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:25 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Come on now. An infected mother is something one would be well aware of, well in advance. No?
Yes we obviously should, but I think the 'at-birth' dose is to cover the possibility of occult infection, as well as the possibility of fomite transmission, which in Hep B's case I think is one week?
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:25 pm to OccamsStubble
quote:
Congrats. You just confused a vaccine with a preventive. Under your definition, vitamin C is a vaccine.
Describe to me how vitamin C produces an antibody response.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:27 pm to burger bearcat
Pfizer has been around since 1849 and has produced zero cures for any disease. That should answer your question. It's about money not your health. Vaccines are a huge moneymaker.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 5:30 pm to Schleynole
quote:
The mother's are tested, doesn't matter.
They should be, and in the US it is generally the case. Vertical transmission is definitely more prevalent in other countries. Still it is a worldwide illness, with hundreds of millions of people infected. I can see the argument for it being given later, but given that it is also relatively harmless and provides protection against Hep B infection and its complications, I see no downside.
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