re: This isn’t a great look for the pentagon. They appear to claim Mormons aren’t Christians

quote:

---

Our priest even gave a homily about that subject during lent. He used a terrible example though - he used the golden bull incident as an example of how “God” didn’t want the Israelites to worship other gods. Let me explain.

---

It was a perfect example. Let me explain.

quote:

---

So it’s clear that they connected the golden bull to Yahweh, in fact, the bull represented Yahweh. To be clear, they made the golden bull, identified the golden bull with the god who delivered them from Egypt, and proclaimed a feast in the name of Yahweh (not some other god).

---

The only thing that is clear- is your misunderstanding of the text. You have a predisposition for isolating scripture from scripture- which is necessary to achieve your preferred understanding of the isolated text.



.,,. a few verses. Quite a few. But before we do that, let’s just “simply” deal with the text you quoted.

3So all the people took off the rings of gold that were in their ears and brought them to Aaron. 4And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!” 5When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD.”

Who made the proclamation? Aaron- in error, as the text later makes clear. What did the Israelites say prior to that? “These are your gods.” if you can read past your “we’ve got Him now” cherry-picked verses, and separate your presuppositions from what the Bible actually says- you would see it. The Bible is recorded history. It captures humanity at its best, worst, and everything in between. Aaron proclaiming that the golden calf was Yahweh carries no more weight than me telling you that the tallest black guy in your office is Michael Jordan.

But, before that even becomes relevant, we have God telling Moses, and Moses telling the people (including Aaron) not to do the exact thing that they did.

Exodus 20:4
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.”

Exodus 24:3
Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord and all the rules. And all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words that the Lord has spoken we will do.”

Then…

Exodus 24:12
The Lord said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain and wait there, that I may give you the tablets of stone, with the law and the commandment, which I have written for their instruction.”

Exodus 24:15-16, 18
“Then Moses went up on the mountain, and the cloud covered the mountain. The glory of the Lord dwelt on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days. And on the seventh day he called to Moses out of the midst of the cloud.”

Moses entered the cloud and went up on the mountain. And Moses was on the mountain forty days and forty nights.

Moses was gone for 40 days and nights, leaving behind a multitude of serial idolaters. But no worries, A-A-Ron is holding it down. And besides, all of Israel already agreed “with one voice” to obey all that the Lord had verbally communicated to them through Moses. What could possibly go wrong?

Exodus 32:1
 When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron and said to him, “Up, make us gods who shall go before us. As for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.” .

These idiots are crediting Moses with delivering them from Egypt- not Yahweh. Moses was their connection to God. No Moses, no Yahweh. They wanted new gods. They had already lost faith in Yahweh and Moses.

quote:

---

So when the priest was reading exodus, he skipped over the part of the verse where they proclaim a feast day to the Lord.

---

Besides the probability that you’re the only one who noticed, much less was disappointed by it, you’re probably also the only one who heard it and accused the priest of a cover up. But seriously, Aaron’s actions are more educational for the practitioner, and Israel’s for the parishioner. And should it be noticed, private/semi-private conversations are a better venue than a broad seeping message to a crowd.

quote:

---

think the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Muslims correctly interpret the original intent of that first commandment in Exodus 20, which is why they forbid divine images in totality.

---

I think it’s good, for you, that you’re already getting accustomed to your future overlords. I could definitely see you taking Islam like you fake Roman Catholicism.

quote:

---

Just because someone disagrees on the exact nature of the universe

---

It’s more like illegal aliens who disagree with an established government about its own laws. Or a terminally ill and highly contagious person who refuses the cure- demanding access to your house and family.

quote:

---

endless torture for eternity

---

I agree. So does scripture. That’s not for us. Believers get eternal life with God. Rebels get judged and cast into the lake of fire- prepared for the Devil and his angels. Utterly destroyed. Not that I think that’s better than eternal torment. But it’s just, and merciful.

quote:

---

thought crime - a crime that they cannot control

---

/thread

quote:

---

Being convinced or not convinced of something or anything isn’t the fault of the one who is convinced or not.

---

Dindu Nuffin?

quote:

---

Yup the lying Jehovah's Witness who pretends to be an atheist (While repeatedly stating he thinks JWs are correct on things...)

---

They more correctly interpret the Hebrew and Greek into English in a couple of verses.

quote:

---

Not to mention all those odd insights you have on that religion,

---

It’s an interesting subject and interesting religion. My cousin’s school friend when we were young couldn’t attend her birthday parties. Their interpretations are interesting, and in many ways they have good points on the scriptures and interpretations. But the scriptures are in reality man made hogwash, so…

quote:

---

you might be the only atheist on the planet that thinks the JWs are right about God...

---

You have a thick skull buddy. The brain case of a Homo Erectus at best. How in the hell is it possible for me to think the JWs (or anyone) are right about Jehovah? HE DOESN’T EXIST!

quote:

---

Narax

---

Why do you have to hate on atheists so much? Why can’t you let us believe what we believe? Why do you spend so much time attempting to spread your ideas alleging my worldview is false?

quote:

---

How many golden bulls did they make?

---

One. Oh, and I apologize for my arrogance in my previous post.

quote:

---

How many gods did they just witness raining down locusts and frogs and helping them get across the sea of reeds?

---

One. Yahweh. How many times have they (we) witnessed the power and faithfulness of God- and still fall back into idolatry? Aren’t you usually the one accusing the Israelites of polytheism?

quote:

---

Aaron didn’t make a mistake

---

C’mon man. He created an idol. He knew he wasn’t supposed to do that. He had just been told a few days earlier. I think he was (in his mind) doing damage control. These people had given up on Moses, and Yahweh. I mean, if they hadn’t been recently, explicitly warned not to do the exact thing

quote:

---

Well sorry, you’re mistaken

---

No, you are just a liar.

quote:

---

I think I’m successful.

---

Typical autistic.

quote:

---

I’m an atheist Catholic.

---

Autistic liar.

quote:

---

How did I fool SFP? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

---

Yup thats a totally normal response!

quote:

---

Aren’t you usually the one accusing the Israelites of polytheism?

---

Evidence of polytheism and idolatry (including of Yahweh and Asherah) were rampant in what was Israel and Judah up until about 160BC. It’s just a simple fact.

quote:

---

C’mon man. He created an idol. He knew he wasn’t supposed to do that.

---

It’s a mythical tale and composite text - scholars figured that out, not me. He made the golden bull before Moses came down from Sinai (the second instance).

quote:

---

It’s a mythical tale and composite text - scholars figured that out, not me. He

---

Ah yes- scholars. “not me”

Let’s pretend that it is a mythical tale. Given what we know about the Israelites’ character, do you really think that they were truly well-intentioned and just made an honest mistake? due solely to ignorance? Do you think they forgot what that had been told and explicitly agreed to “with one voice?” Or, is it more likely that they thought Moses wasn’t coming back, but, instead of asking Aaron to intercede, or to find Moses , or to take his place and lead them to Yahweh- they ask him to build an idol for other gods, because without Moses, they have no connection to Yahweh?

quote:

---

Let’s see how many idiots claim it’s a cult because it’s something a preacher or mama told them.

---

It’s literally the Scientology version of Christianity. It’s Masonic magical temu Christianity

quote:

---

Given what we know about the Israelites’ character, do you really think that they were truly well-intentioned and just made an honest mistake? due solely to ignorance? Do you think they forgot what that had been told and explicitly agreed to “with one voice?” Or, is it more likely that they thought Moses wasn’t coming back, but, instead of asking Aaron to intercede, or to find Moses , or to take his place and lead them to Yahweh- they ask him to build an idol for other gods,

---

Didn’t all the Israelites witness the plagues of Egypt including Yahweh himself murdering all the firstborns of Egypt? Didn’t they just see the power of Yahweh splitting the sea of reeds? Haven’t they been seeing Yahweh manifested by smoke and a pillar of fire? Didn’t they just witness Yahweh killing the entire Egyptian army? Didn’t they experience Yahweh’s earthquakes?

And you’re telling me they weren’t absolutely scared shitless???? “Hey let’s worship some other gods by saying these totally new/different gods were the ones who delivered us from Egypt but shite let’s have a feast in honor of Yahweh the god we are now rejecting!”

PS, your reading of the story is flawed. Obviously the golden bull was a representative idol used for the worship of Yahweh as with the ones at Bethel and Dan in the book of Kings. Use your context clues. They make the golden bull and the next sentence proclaims a feast for Yahweh.

quote:

---

Even above, your whole mindset, phrasing and logic is of someone who is whole heartedly not an atheist in any way, you attempt to attack Christianity,

---

I’m just pointing out that the golden bull was an idol meant specifically to represent and invoke the presence of Yahweh. There’s already an analog - at Dan and Bethel (both at temples that would have been prohibited by Deuteronomistic law had that book been known to the Israelites) there were cultic idols made to be golden bulls that were used specifically to invoke the presence of Yahweh. In Hosea chapter 8 the author specifically states the golden bulls were for Yahweh worship and represented Yahweh but that Yahweh rejected those divine images. And in exodus, immediately… well you know what? Let me just quote it:

quote:

---

4And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!” 5When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD.”

---

So the Israelites had just seen all the plagues and killing of the Egyptian army and splitting of the sea and all that… they know which deity led them out of Egypt. When Aaron saw the people accepted it (by saying all in unison this is the god that saved them from Egypt) he built an altar and proclaimed a feast to the god represented by the golden bull… and the name of that god was Yahweh. So the golden bull wasn’t some other god… they were worshipping Yahweh, but the manner in which they were worshipping wasn’t approved by Yahweh.

quote:

---

and when that fails you fall back on atheist arguments.

---

I don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re losing me.

quote:

---

You are a doorknocker plain and simple. You knock on cyber doors to try to attack people's religion and then lead them to JW websites through phrasing and breadcrumbs.

---

Hey you know, they are right about some things. You should really check them out. But unlike the apostle Paul and others like Jude, James, and Clement, who believed Yahweh become incarnate and earned the name Jesus after his death and resurrection and was the son of El Elyon the most high God, the JWs believed Jesus was the son of Yahweh.

quote:

---

I for a while thought you were a Mormon, but eventually you gave me enough data that you could have only been a Jehovah's witness.

---

Imagine all those wives. You might think that would be trouble with all the sass and backtalk, but those Mormon wives are submissive and don’t spend money without permission.

quote:

---

Your post history looks nothing like an atheist, or Jewish, or Islamic, or Mormon. Singularly it's one of a Jehovah's Witness.

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Didn’t all the Israelites witness the plagues of Egypt including Yahweh himself murdering all the firstborns of Egypt? Didn’t they just see the power of Yahweh splitting the sea of reeds? Haven’t they been seeing Yahweh manifested by smoke and a pillar of fire? Didn’t they just witness Yahweh killing the entire Egyptian army? Didn’t they experience Yahweh’s earthquakes?

---

Said no atheist ever.

---

Ok I think I may see the problem. I could fathom you would even be that dense. Let me explain. I don’t actually believe the Israelites witnessed Yahweh raining down plagues on Egypt. I don’t actually, in reality, believe in Yahweh or the exodus or the plagues or the splitting of the sea of reeds. I am merely talking about what happened in the mythical tale.

If I were to mention to you the little Indian boy named Mogli who was rescued from a tiger and a bunch of monkeys and orangutans by a bear, it doesn’t mean I believe the animated tale of the Jungle Book was a real historical event. Do you understand now?