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Message
re: The West doesn't have the industrial capacity to fight major ground wars.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 2:58 pm to RiverCityTider
Posted on 2/22/25 at 2:58 pm to RiverCityTider
We don’t have the industrial capacity to make the Antibiotics that we need. I think that is the point of the whole MAGA thing, which is to make America independent again. I loved the idea of giving hard working Chinese folk the work to feed their loved ones out in the country, and for our people to be able to buy cheaper (non-union/price inflated crap like when they pulled their crap) but I knew there would be a price to pay down the Freedom road. I hope we can finesse the necessary changes with as little harm as possible, for all concerned.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 2:59 pm to RiverCityTider
Serious question (because I don’t really understand), but why would we ever need to? Wouldn’t it be better to just hold out and defend our borders and make any other nation have to expend all of their ships, ammunition’s and troops just to get here?
This post was edited on 2/22/25 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:00 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Well...we have bases in every region of the world, allowing us to respond militarily within 24 hours to any crisis that might present itself. We have 11 active aircraft carriers that can hold up to 64 individual aircraft apiece, able to arrive in a combat zone within a matter of days, providing up to 700 fighters and bombers within hours of a declaration of war. These aircraft are state of the art, the pilots who fly them are highly trained, and the weapons which they carry are some of the smartest and most capable ever produced.

Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:02 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:That dripping noise in the background is the MIC voraciously slobbering on itself.
The West doesn't have the industrial capacity to fight major ground wars.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:03 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
So what did thr Ukraines lack that we never gave them? More planes?
If the USAF and Navy air was allowed to operate in Ukraine, Russia never advances, possibly even into the Donbass.
The only reason this didn't happen was the 0.001% chance Russia used nukes in response. That's the only reason Russia has been permitted to operate the way they have since 2008. Anytime they're under a threat of losing, they threaten to use nukes. It even happened during the Ukraine conflict.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:11 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If the USAF and Navy air was allowed to operate in Ukraine, Russia never advances, possibly even into the Donbass.
Why should the USA have any involvement in Ukraine much less put our military in danger?
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:13 pm to RollTide1987
We would cripple them with a precision strike on 3 Gorges Dam.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:16 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
Why should the USA have any involvement in Ukraine much less put our military in danger?
That's not the discussion being had.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:18 pm to Bwmdx
We have been worrying about chip production when we need to ramp up steel production.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:19 pm to Tight 10
quote:
We control the skies.
Until we run out of missiles, at which point I agree with
quote:
Game over
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:22 pm to UcobiaA
quote:
So do we want a MIC or not? You can't have it both ways.
An efficient and forward thinking MIC that doesn’t in effect control DC?
Absolutely.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:28 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Well...we have bases in every region of the world, allowing us to respond militarily within 24 hours to any crisis that might present itself. We have 11 active aircraft carriers that can hold up to 64 individual aircraft apiece, able to arrive in a combat zone within a matter of days, providing up to 700 fighters and bombers within hours of a declaration of war. These aircraft are state of the art, the pilots who fly them are highly trained, and the weapons which they carry are some of the smartest and most capable ever produced.
None of the airports or carriers can defend against hypersonic missile attacks.
The best air defense systems in the world can see stealth aircraft - not like they can see the older stuff, but enough to get some hits. We don't have that many stealth aircraft and they are down a lot for maintenance. Those aircraft will be pushed for sorties and all it takes is for one fastener to come loose and that plane lights up on radar. We learned this with the F117. It was a tiny blip until a fastener popped loose then they found it as a big signal on radar.
Russian S400 and S500 systems can target missiles, planes, bombers etc. They can also target space based systems like satellites. No satellites and we are crippled. Those systems also have enormous range, particularly the S500. It's range greatly exceeds the range of things like the F35 and F22, meaning the S500 will be able to target the tankers and the early warning / comms aircraft. Those systems can also see and target everything that might be launched from the B2 / B21 and the B52 and B1.
Russia has the industrial capacity to churn out these S400 and S500 systems, as well as missiles for them. Not only are our systems giant bags of garbage compared to theirs, we don't have the capacity to keep them fed with missiles. It was estimated that about 5% of the vital air space in Europe could be protected if there was a conflict with Russia.
Russia would destroy everything in Europe within an hour. No highways, no runways, no railways, no ports, no fuel, no way to enter theater or resupply theater, and they could target all the carriers as well. We have no defense against those hypersonic missiles. Our surface fleet would be decimated. Our subs would likely perform well but the issue of resupplying them would be a big deal. We would accomplish some hits on their air defense systems and missile systems but they would do the same. It would be far faster and easier for them to replenish and reset than for us, so they would then put more damage on us while we try to reset and resupply.
Russia would take out our satellites and we would take out theirs. We would be back to WWII style warfare very quickly, and industrial capacity / logistics rules the day in that scenario. We couldn't feed enough 105mm and 155mm shells to our artillery people, or tank rounds to our tankers. Same for fuel, water, bullets, and food, not mention degradation in CASEVAC and MEDEVAC. The ability to provide close air support in older aircraft would be severely compromised and the ability to get stealth aircraft close enough and in the air enough would be really difficult.
We have been getting raped on programs like the F35 and F22 and now have no capacity to fight a conflict lasting longer than about 30 days. On Shawn Ryan's podcast, he was saying that if we had to defend Taiwan we'd run out of missiles in eight days.
People saw the writing on the wall prior to our entry into WWII. Production capabilities started to ramp up in 1939 and we had a head start back then because that's what our economy did. Something like 1/3 of our labor force was devoted to manufacturing stuff. I think it is now below 1/10. It still took a good amount of time to feed the supply needs of WWII, so imagine what it would take now. In the past we had 50 massive, major defense producers, now we have 5, iirc. From the end of the Cold War (roughly) to now, we have lost 2/3 of the workers in defense. Around the end of WWII our goods were about 10% foreign made and now I believe it's over 60%. We simply do not make things here any longer.
Core items for industrial and tech production (steel, aluminum, minerals for things like chips) are coming in massive numbers from China. If we fight China or Russia or someone allied with them, we'll get nothing. China is churning out that materiel by many multiples compared to our output.
The MIC has raped our nation of trillions for R&D and operational costs, and has provided us with zero capability to fight a peer competitor in any protracted conflict. If we can't win it within a month, our inability to resupply could lead to a dramatic reversal of momentum and force us to capitulate or go the nuclear route. Add to this the fact that a nation like Russia will get subs off our coast and major defense centers will be targeted and hit, like the shipyards in VA, like Ft. Bragg, like all of the east coast ports, west coast ports, etc. It takes months or longer to fix a port, let alone the ship building facilities. So no ships, no subs, no repairs, no one topped off with supplies getting to theater, etc.
Tactics are for amateurs, logistics are for professionals. Our douchebags at the top of the Pentagon and in Congress long ago abandoned logistics to churn out the next masterpiece of tech, thinking it would be checkmate tactically. You can't go through one bit of military professional education at any level and not be told about the importance of logistics. These assholes sold out our country so they could get rich and have big paychecks after retirement. These new gadgets like the F35 will turn into paperweights without the logistics capacity to keep them going.
Treason is what has happened. We are weaker and nations like China are stronger and emboldened. In the past, some mongoloids here have scoffed at the idea that our industrial capacity is lacking yet the GAO and Heritage and others have published multiple reports about this. They are all out there on the internet, as well as reports on the difficulties with our stealth aircraft.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:28 pm to Bwmdx
3 Gorges Dam is the answer with China.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:31 pm to ronricks
quote:
Tanks and aircraft carriers are sitting ducks now. It’s all about technology now. Who has the highest tech weaponry that doesn’t require a human be in it to operate it? Remote controlled weapons are the future. Period.
There is some truth to this but it also requires an industrial (and chip making/electronics) manufacturing base to build these as well.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:36 pm to POTUS2024
Take a breath cry baby. If Russia was so bad arse why are they at a standstill more or less ? And no I’m not an Ukraine supporter. But Russia isn’t that bad arse.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:40 pm to Ag Zwin
I bet the British dragoons are happy
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:41 pm to RiverCityTider
We have thousands of mothballed tanks and PCs. Russia has made great use of very old tanks, using them as short range artillery. We could use them for more than that.
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:42 pm to Tigers0891
quote:
Take a breath cry baby. If Russia was so bad arse why are they at a standstill more or less ? And no I’m not an Ukraine supporter. But Russia isn’t that bad arse.
The way he just described Russia, they should be taking over Europe and the ME without much drama
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:45 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:People to operate them effectively and efficiently.
So what did thr Ukraines lack that we never gave them? More planes?
Posted on 2/22/25 at 3:46 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
In 2023, China constructed over 1,000 vessels
Good for them.

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