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re: The Vatican comes out against polygamy, reasserts its position on same-sex marriage...
Posted on 11/26/25 at 4:02 pm to retired_tiger
Posted on 11/26/25 at 4:02 pm to retired_tiger
quote:
Religion does not belong in politics. Public policy should be based upon reason, not faith
Ignorance is bliss.
The two can not be separated.
Do you think muslims don’t vote based on religion.
Belief in Christ is based on reason.
The fact that you are ignorant of world history and modern science while at the same time thinking you are enlightened is hilarious.
1
Posted on 11/26/25 at 4:06 pm to retired_tiger
quote:
Then he has some explaining to do.
You remind me of all those ignorant 19 year olds that boldly confronted Charlie Kirk.
Posted on 11/26/25 at 4:37 pm to retired_tiger
The problem I see with the epicurean paradox is that it assumes that free will is the end all be all of God’s design.
In my experience/belief/faith God’s greatest gift to us was not our free will - that was merely a consequence of the gift.
The gift actually is desire. God gave us the ability to desire Him, things, people, feelings etc. because we have desires by their very nature are above and beyond needs and therefore subject to prioritization. We can pursue our desires even when they directly contradict our needs. And pursuit is driven only by the necessity to choose.
The story of why God created man - He wanted beings that loved Him because they pursued Him beyond compliance but out of want.
So yes He could have built a universe that free will did not include sin but since He wanted a world that people would “choose” to desire Him He had to create a world where “choosing” other desires (i.e. sins) was also possible.
So to revisit your chart:
1. why does He allow Satan to exists because He wants us to choose Him over a real alternative.
2. Why would He still allow us to be tested? Because it’s not truly an expression of real desire if there isn’t a real opportunity to reject Him. Test aren’t for His edification it is for ours.
Because as a truly omniscient and omnipotent being He understand the formula for the world in a way this “paradox” refuses to accept. It looks micro and an individual’s failure on one test may become necessary for success in more significant situations.
3. Could he have created a world with free choice with out evil: sure but in order to achieve the goal of creating a being that is free to align their desires with Him there has to be a lesser or opposing force they could align with instead
In my experience/belief/faith God’s greatest gift to us was not our free will - that was merely a consequence of the gift.
The gift actually is desire. God gave us the ability to desire Him, things, people, feelings etc. because we have desires by their very nature are above and beyond needs and therefore subject to prioritization. We can pursue our desires even when they directly contradict our needs. And pursuit is driven only by the necessity to choose.
The story of why God created man - He wanted beings that loved Him because they pursued Him beyond compliance but out of want.
So yes He could have built a universe that free will did not include sin but since He wanted a world that people would “choose” to desire Him He had to create a world where “choosing” other desires (i.e. sins) was also possible.
So to revisit your chart:
1. why does He allow Satan to exists because He wants us to choose Him over a real alternative.
2. Why would He still allow us to be tested? Because it’s not truly an expression of real desire if there isn’t a real opportunity to reject Him. Test aren’t for His edification it is for ours.
Because as a truly omniscient and omnipotent being He understand the formula for the world in a way this “paradox” refuses to accept. It looks micro and an individual’s failure on one test may become necessary for success in more significant situations.
3. Could he have created a world with free choice with out evil: sure but in order to achieve the goal of creating a being that is free to align their desires with Him there has to be a lesser or opposing force they could align with instead
Posted on 11/26/25 at 5:17 pm to retired_tiger
quote:He already has explained. God has a sufficiently good reason for the existence of evil, and that's all that is needed.
Then he has some explaining to do.
From a Christian perspective, the most evil act ever to occur was the unjust death of God's only son, Jesus Christ. However, God had planned that evil action and used the evil desires of those who ultimately had Him killed for the ultimate good of those people whom God saved through that action. Just as parents often times provide an unpleasant response to bad actions of their children for their discipline and correction, which is for the good of their children, so, too, does God allow evil for good reasons, including His own glory and the good of His people.
The problem you, as an atheist, have to contend with, is the existence of evil without the existence of God.
If you do not have an omnipotent law-giver that provides an objective standard for good and evil, then "evil" is merely an opinion rather than an objective reality. If God does not exist, then all you can do is say you don't personally like rape and murder, but that such things aren't objectively "wrong" or "evil". After all, in a world without God, what one accidental mass of matter does to another accidental mass of matter doesn't have eternal consequences and doesn't violate any cosmic rule or law of morality, because none would exist.
Because we recognize that evil exists, the only way to act consistently with such a belief is to posit an objective moral law-giver, which is God. Otherwise, to believe and/or act as if objective evil exists is to act inconsistently and irrationally.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 9:55 am to FooManChoo
quote:
the most evil act ever to occur was the unjust death of God's only son, Jesus Christ.
It’s good to see you admitting that your God does evil. So He creates evil and carries out evil actions. He’d be evil if he was real.
And I thought we’ve been through this before, Foo. Why do you keep calling Jesus God’s only son? Why not just use “unique” or “one of a kind” which is the proper English translation of monogenes? You can use the term “unique” while still acknowledging all the other divine sons of God who live or came from the heavens such as in Genesis 6, Deuteronomy 32, and Psalm 82.
quote:
God allow evil for good reasons, including His own glory
A little psycho don’t you think? And narcissistic.
quote:
The problem you, as an atheist, have to contend with, is the existence of evil without the existence of God.
There is no problem, and the premise of the statement is moot as your God doesn’t exist and we have no evidence for any supernatural deity’s existence.
quote:
If you do not have an omnipotent law-giver that provides an objective standard for good and evil, then "evil" is merely an opinion rather than an objective reality.
Evil is subjective. That’s why they have this whole area of study called “Ethics” and “Philosophy”.
And damn Foo we’ve been over this time and time again and you keep repeating your lies. I’ve showed you many times there is no objective standard for good and evil contained within the Bible. Should Christians follow the Torah or reject it? It depends on which epistle or gospel you are reading. Should we punish children for the crimes of their parents? It depends which OT scripture you are reading. Should we use eye for an eye justice, or should we turn the other cheek? Depends which book or gospel you are reading. Should we murder innocent women, children, and babies or should we treat all neighbors with respect and dignity? It depends which book or gospel you are reading. Should you do whatever God tells you to do or not? David found out the hard when when he did exactly as God commanded and then was punished for it by God killing his innocent subjects.
There’s no objective moral truths in the Bible. Just stop it.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 3:12 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:I really do hope you repent and trust in Jesus one day. Your rebellion against the truth will only make eternity worse for you, otherwise.
Squirrelmeister
Posted on 11/28/25 at 3:20 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
In a polygamous system the top 5% of men would lock down all the OT 8s, 9s, and 10s leaving the rest of the men with slim pickens.
Git gud
Posted on 11/28/25 at 3:45 pm to retired_tiger
quote:
Religion does not belong in politics. Public policy should be based upon reason, not faith.
Not possible for a variety of reasons:
1. Humans are not purely rational agents. Political reasoning is usually post-hoc rationalization of prior emotional or identity-based institutions. This has been proven by psychology.
2. Values that we hold are themselves pre-rational. If we agreed to use only evidence and logic when it came to making political decisions, we would still disagree violently with our conclusions. Do we maximize average-well being, medium-well being, the well-being of the worst off, liberty, equality of opportunity, equality of outcome, national greatness, ecological sustainability, or divine law? These values are not derivable from reason alone. At some point every political philosophy rests on some kind of morality that feel self-evident to believers and articles of faith to outsiders.
3. The information we use is incomplete and contested. A purely rational political system would require near-perfect, agreed upon data about enormously complex systems (economies, societies, climates, etc.). In reality the data we possess is noisy, filled with competing models, huge time lags, and strong incentives to spin evidence. Even the most honest of experts disagree about causation vs. correlation, discount rates, and how to measure intangible goods.
4. Tribal psychology is hard-wired. Voting is cheap, so the rational thing to do from a pure self-interest perspective is to vote by signaling loyalty to your group rather than voting via costly, dispassionate analysis.
In short: you dream of a utopia where none exists.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 5:31 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Your rebellion against the truth will only make eternity worse for you, otherwise.
Quit asserting indefensible apologetics, and nonsensical gibberish, arse.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 6:03 pm to Guntoter1
quote:
Ignorance is bliss.
The two can not be separated.
Do you think muslims don’t vote based on religion.
Belief in Christ is based on reason.
The fact that you are ignorant of world history and modern science while at the same time thinking you are enlightened is hilarious.
So we need to emulate the Muslims?
There's no reason to any religion. It's faith. That's your own proclamation - "I have faith in afterlife"/etc.
We need to eradicate religion from politics completely, though we've made some ground in the past 200 years.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 7:44 pm to FooManChoo
quote:quote:That's a pretty lofty claim.
God doesn't exist, at least not in the form of an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful entity.
No, it’s reasonable. There’s certainly no evidence of such a thing, even in your Bible.
In the Bible, your gods (Elyon and Yahweh) don’t know everything. They make mistakes, experience regret, have to send angels to scout for them, bargain with the patriarchs based on their limited knowledge, and more. They don’t love all people, as evidenced in the Canaanites they demand the Israelites slaughter, and they kill off the entire Egyptian army who would have presumably converted to Yahwism after seeing his power. But they (at least Yahweh) ain’t all powerful as he wasn’t able to defeat the Canaanites with iron chariots nor was he able to defeat Chemosh and the Moabites.
quote:
The God of the Bible does exist. The evidence is all around us.
The complete opposite is true and you are living in a fantasy bubble.
quote:
That God is a perfect, immaterial, and unbounded spirit consisting of one nature in three persons. The second person of this one God is Jesus Christ--God in the flesh. Jesus is God who entered into creation to be a representative and substitute for humans made in His image who fall into sin and cannot stand before a holy God on our own. Jesus obeyed the requirements of obedience for us and died on the cross to bear the punishment that we deserve. In doing so, He procured eternal life for those who receive it by faith.
Simply baseless assertions.
quote:
There is a God, and He created you and sent His Son to die so that you and I could be forgiven for the offenses we give to Him through our sinful/lawless behavior.
Hogwash.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 7:49 pm to Squirrelmeister
You certainly do waste a lot of time with your ignorance of the Bible.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 8:17 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You certainly do waste a lot of time with your ignorance of the Bible.
Don’t give up Foo. C’mon, let’s have a discussion about objective morality. Does the Bible say the sons should bear the guilt of the father or not? Or perhaps you want to discuss whether there were 2 or 14 of the clean animals on the ark. How about dinosaurs? Or maybe the firmament and the flat earth the Bible clearly describes. Or maybe it’s the seven firmaments, of which Paul had an out of body experience floating up to the third heaven?
I gotta be honest with you too, I very much do love the story of Yahweh getting his arse kicked by Chemosh.
I’d like to discuss some scientific topics but you don’t believe in science or the natural world, so all we have left is the Bible.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 8:28 pm to Squirrelmeister
No point having those discussions with you. When you are proven wrong (like the alleged irreconcilable contradiction of Ex 20 vs Ex 34), you just move on to something else. You constantly spam responses with multiple topics as a cheap debate trick to make it seem like you “win” because there is too much to adequately address in a single post, and again, when someone does takes the time to respond, you pivot to other topics anyway. It is a waste of time, because you are not a serious intellectual; you just pose as one so people will take you seriously, all while regurgitating the same drivel found on Reddit’s atheism stacks and then claim all credible scalars agree with you. It’s a joke.
You are a troll who hates Christ and you want to lead people away from the truth. You will say anything you can to make that happen.
You are a troll who hates Christ and you want to lead people away from the truth. You will say anything you can to make that happen.
Posted on 11/29/25 at 9:39 am to FooManChoo
quote:
When you are proven wrong (like the alleged irreconcilable contradiction of Ex 20 vs Ex 34)
You proved yourself retarded, making up whatever you like in your head while rejecting the plain meaning and context.
quote:
It’s a joke.
Ok Mr. young earth creationist dinosaurs on the ark guy.
Posted on 11/29/25 at 9:46 am to retired_tiger
quote:
Public policy should be based upon reason, not faith.
Anybody that says this doesn't have the intellectual capacity to understand the issue or just hasn't bothered to do so.
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