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2
Posted on 4/8/22 at 11:52 am to doubleb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WKXzbUxe9c
This fella does a good job covering the Ukrainian PR effort to spin it as a Russian attack after they hit Donetsk with same Tochka U.
This fella does a good job covering the Ukrainian PR effort to spin it as a Russian attack after they hit Donetsk with same Tochka U.
Posted on 4/8/22 at 11:52 am to doubleb
Are we thinking an edgy teenager, or a paid professional?
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:00 pm to RuLSU
quote:
Are we thinking an edgy teenager, or a paid professional?
The resident lib default go-to ad homer attack. Care to address the trajectory analysis. One can spin if Russia still uses Tochka U's, but you can't really spin projectile dynamics.
Draw a line from where a rocket booster fell off and impact zone, and you'll get a general direction of where the missile came from, taking into account the range which is at most 120km.
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:01 pm to dr90210
quote:
This is what I didn't have time to do, but some Russian YTer already made an analysis based on rocket booster location and impact. It came from the direction where Ukrainian forces are stationed. I put some subtitle based on context. So it's a Ukrainian rocket that came from a Ukraian frontline. Case closed.
Lol
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:01 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
There's satellite imagery and drone video of the bodies being present in the street in the same position they were found after Bucha was liberated. It wasn't faked
That is digital evidence of low quality satellite imagery which is easily manipulated and faked. High quality imagery is available but has not released. So the imagery is not conclusive.
The holding back of high quality imagery suggests someone prefers ambiguity rather than resolving the issue.
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:09 pm to Tigers2010a
quote:The drone video is not low quality and it corroborates the satellite imagery and the videos and photos from after the liberation
That is digital evidence of low quality satellite imagery which is easily manipulated and faked. High quality imagery is available but has not released. So the imagery is not conclusive.
The holding back of high quality imagery suggests someone prefers ambiguity rather than resolving the issue.
This post was edited on 4/8/22 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:10 pm to dr90210
quote:
The resident lib default go-to ad homer attack. Care to address the trajectory analysis. One can spin if Russia still uses Tochka U's, but you can't really spin projectile dynamics.
Quick, summer child, name something:
- Russia has done wrong
- Ukraine has done right
Go!
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:14 pm to Hog on the Hill
I haven't seen any drone video of the incident. What is available?
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:15 pm to RuLSU
@RuLSU
More namecalling, shitposting. It's a rocket predominantly used by Ukraine coming from the Ukrainian direction. Reason for doing so? So they can have a human shield like Mariupol to prolongue the invasion and drive the narrative.
Refute this:
More namecalling, shitposting. It's a rocket predominantly used by Ukraine coming from the Ukrainian direction. Reason for doing so? So they can have a human shield like Mariupol to prolongue the invasion and drive the narrative.
Refute this:
This post was edited on 4/8/22 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:21 pm to dr90210
lol big circle that says "IMPACT ZONE" that's within dozens of meters of the booster rocket, creating a massive potential extrapolation error, plus we have to assume that the booster rocket lands in line with the point of impact
Do you have any information about when and how the booster separates from the warhead?
Do you have any information about when and how the booster separates from the warhead?
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:21 pm to dr90210
So, no, you won't name something Russia has done wrong, and nothing Ukraine has done right.
(Russia was brilliant in their southern approach; Ukrainian soldiers have absolutely violated Geneva conventions numerous times, and they've tortured / brutalized both citizens and POWs)
So, I am called upon to 'refute' a still image and a Russian YT video. How does one refute a Russian YT video and a single still image - one that does not even show the damage of the alleged strike, by the way?
I present to you this: LINK
(Russia was brilliant in their southern approach; Ukrainian soldiers have absolutely violated Geneva conventions numerous times, and they've tortured / brutalized both citizens and POWs)
So, I am called upon to 'refute' a still image and a Russian YT video. How does one refute a Russian YT video and a single still image - one that does not even show the damage of the alleged strike, by the way?
I present to you this: LINK
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:26 pm to dr90210
It doesn't need to be a "Russian video" you tiresome NPC bot. I can't tell if you're dishonest or incapable of critical thinking. Use google maps and correlate the video/image of rocket booster. Then get back to me when you have something worth addressing.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/Kramatorsk,+Donetsk+Oblast,+train+station/@48.7256338,37.541037,234m/data=!3m1!1e3
Exact google maps location. You can correlate booster location and impact zone. It came from West South West or SouthWest where there are mostly Ukrainian forces.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/Kramatorsk,+Donetsk+Oblast,+train+station/@48.7256338,37.541037,234m/data=!3m1!1e3
Exact google maps location. You can correlate booster location and impact zone. It came from West South West or SouthWest where there are mostly Ukrainian forces.
This post was edited on 4/8/22 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:32 pm to Tigers2010a
quote:LINK
I haven't seen any drone video of the incident. What is available?
They have the original unedited drone videos available for download but the Google Drive account is locked for 24 hours because there have been too many downloads
Hopefully someone uploads them somewhere else so we can take a look at the originals
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:39 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
lol big circle that says "IMPACT ZONE" that's within dozens of meters of the booster rocket, creating a massive potential extrapolation error, plus we have to assume that the booster rocket lands in line with the point of impact
Do you have any information about when and how the booster separates from the warhead?
Are you asking a legitimate question or just trying to move the goals posts? Rocket ballistics are hard to confuse. That tail section booster weighs anywhere around 1000lbs and it was moving few hundred miles an hour, so it will want to keep moving in the direction it came from. That's basic physics.
So it is a Ukrainian ulitized rocket that they have in large supply that came from a direction of a Ukrainian frontline.
This is what we have based on just the visual evidence.
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:44 pm to dr90210
The marked location is not the exact location of the booster, it's off by at least 5 meters. You can see that the booster is in line with the front of the parking spaces to the south. The marked location is not, it's well behind the parking spaces. Is this nitpicking? I don't think so. The impact of the rocket is just dozens of meters away. IF the booster and impact point are 100% in line (I doubt that) then a 5 meter shift can significantly alter the extrapolated direction of the rocket's travel.
If we're going to use this (probably flawed) way of determining where the rocket was fired from, we need to be precise about the marked location.
BTW just using the marked location and impact zone circle, we can see that there's a potential 60 degree range the rocket could have traveled IF the rocket and impact are 100% in line (doubtful). The map you posted does not reflect a 60 degree range, however. It's maybe half that.
If we're going to use this (probably flawed) way of determining where the rocket was fired from, we need to be precise about the marked location.
BTW just using the marked location and impact zone circle, we can see that there's a potential 60 degree range the rocket could have traveled IF the rocket and impact are 100% in line (doubtful). The map you posted does not reflect a 60 degree range, however. It's maybe half that.
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:47 pm to dr90210
quote:How far from the target does the booster separate from the warhead? Do you have any idea?
Are you asking a legitimate question or just trying to move the goals posts? Rocket ballistics are hard to confuse. That tail section booster weighs anywhere around 1000lbs and it was moving few hundred miles an hour, so it will want to keep moving in the direction it came from. That's basic physics.
So it is a Ukrainian ulitized rocket that they have in large supply that came from a direction of a Ukrainian frontline.
This is what we have based on just the visual evidence.
They have different aerodynamics and therefore will be affected by air resistance and wind differently. The booster is likely to be more affected by air resistance and wind than the warhead, given its shape, size, and fins. What was the direction and speed of the wind at the time of the attack?
I guess that's slightly more advanced that "basic physics"
You're watching some video and then confidently asserting that its physics 101 interpretation is accurate, ignoring the flaws in the way the analysis is done (I'm talking now about the vague "impact zone", inaccurate location of booster, misleadingly narrow extrapolation, etc) and not even considering what I've outlined above
This post was edited on 4/8/22 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:50 pm to Hog on the Hill
I agree that a more forensic investigation is needed to determine which direction the rocket came in from.
But the problem is the media and Zelensky are out in full propaganda mode claiming it's Russia. Nobody will care in 2 months that rocket came from Ukrainian side, if it in fact did.
I think we can confidently say nobody knows where it came from, but if I had to place a bet, I'd put my money on it coming from a Ukrainian side because it sure as hell looks like it.
They have every incentive to prevent civilians leaving and having the media blame Russia per-emptively gives them PR coverage cycle they seek. They will continue doing these kinds of attacks to make headlines.
But the problem is the media and Zelensky are out in full propaganda mode claiming it's Russia. Nobody will care in 2 months that rocket came from Ukrainian side, if it in fact did.
I think we can confidently say nobody knows where it came from, but if I had to place a bet, I'd put my money on it coming from a Ukrainian side because it sure as hell looks like it.
They have every incentive to prevent civilians leaving and having the media blame Russia per-emptively gives them PR coverage cycle they seek. They will continue doing these kinds of attacks to make headlines.
This post was edited on 4/8/22 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 4/8/22 at 12:57 pm to dr90210
quote:
I agree that a more forensic investigation is needed to determine which direction the rocket came in from.
But the problem is the media and Zelensky are out in full propaganda mode claiming it's Russia
Come on man, you already told us it was a Ukrainian launch.
Lol
Posted on 4/8/22 at 1:10 pm to doubleb
You're tedious. You were up in arms that it was Russia who fired the rocket without any evidence whatsoever.
So pump the breaks, clownfam.
Meanwhile CNN is already reporting it's Russia. Fcking clowns.
Propaganda in full spin. Price is such a slimy lying pencil neck.
So pump the breaks, clownfam.
Meanwhile CNN is already reporting it's Russia. Fcking clowns.
Propaganda in full spin. Price is such a slimy lying pencil neck.
This post was edited on 4/8/22 at 1:21 pm
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