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re: The GOP wants to add $3T to the debt

Posted on 2/13/25 at 1:32 pm to
Posted by SingleMalt1973
Member since Feb 2022
19218 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 1:32 pm to
Should be a wash now that Doge found 2.7 Trillion in fraudulent medicare and medicaid payments to foreigners.
Posted by SingleMalt1973
Member since Feb 2022
19218 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 1:33 pm to
Dems basically brining money
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 1:34 pm
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
26000 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 1:51 pm to
quote:

$4.5T in tax cuts,

While increasing taxes, a.k.a., tariffs. The increased tariff burden shifts the taxes to consumers. In other words, it's on your back.
Posted by Boss
Member since Dec 2007
1620 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 1:53 pm to
Being in corporate tax for 13+ years makes me more qualified than you
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
53136 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

Being in corporate tax for 13+ years makes me more qualified than you


Been a tax attorney for 14 years. Try again, sparky.
Posted by wdhalgren
Member since May 2013
3850 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

FY 2016 $3.27 trillion
FY 2017 $3.32 trillion
FY 2018 $3.33 trillion <- Most provisions of the TCJA go into effect.
FY 2019 $3.46 trillion
FY 2020 $3.42 trillion
FY 2021 $4.05 trillion
FY 2022 $4.90 trillion
FY 2023 $4.44 trillion
FY 2024 $4.92 trillion <- 47% Increase since tax cuts

The stimulating effects are not instantaneous and it's pretty plain to see that we have a spending problem and not a revenue problem.


Understanding trends in govt revenue numbers is not as straightforward as it seems. Inflation (which is understated in govt stats, IMO) plays a big role in dollar based statistics, including govt revenues. Foreign and domestic economic cycles, driven by changes in both monetary and fiscal policy (with a variable lag), play a big role. The foreign exchange value of the US dollar affects corporate profits, which affect corporate taxes. All of those affect price changes in financial markets, real estate markets, etc., which in turn affect revenue from capital gains taxes. Even boosting the rate of immigration, especially if accompanied by fiscal stimulus, can raise consumption and create an inflationary impulse that flows through to tax receipts.

Personally, I think inflation has been the primary driver of increasing government revenues since at least the 1970's. Obviously, inflation also drives govt spending at the same time, by an even faster rate since more of the working middle class and retirees tend to be forced into govt dependency over time. So the idea of inflating away the debt doesn't really work well unless the govt stops new issuance and allows the central bank to pay the bills directly with new money.
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 2:30 pm
Posted by Thecoz
Member since Dec 2018
3385 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 2:08 pm to
All for auditing our spending and finding a trillion or two .. but I thought a lot of the tax cuts being pushed was an extension of the previous stuff he did first term.. it benefitted high income and corp most.. there were lots of articles showing most corps did not invest in large cap projects with savings but did stock buybacks to bump stock price…the thought was to lower the corp taxes and it would trickle down into general economy in jobs.. spending etc.. you got breaks for switching your company from llc to S Corp .. lots of other stuff

I did benefit from those and the new ones being discussed but imo.. let them die..tax tips.. tax my social security.. find another couple of trillion in waste..

Pay down debt.. invest in infrastructure and defense .. not just tanks and guns.. next war will be drones and cyberattacks imo..
Posted by Bigdawgb
Member since Oct 2023
2457 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

This board is preoccupied with the conman's misdirection

The debt is shifting to a new swamp
Elon will make out like a bandit


I've seen this getting parroted here lately, what it boils down to is:

1. People are giving Elon the benefit of the doubt because he's pushing for revolutionary things ie Starlink & Tesla and at this point he has a reputation as our generation's Thomas Edison.

2. The Fed. Gov. had some benefit of the doubt, but it's been lost as evidence of them blowing Trillions of dollars on bullshite (instead of progress) has been mounting for weeks now.

If Elon is given $100M a year to spends & spends it efficiently, what's the problem?? If you feel he's not spending it efficiently, then do some digging and expose the grift, as DOGE is doing with the government.

You have to do the work before people take you seriously though
Posted by BozemanTiger
Member since Jul 2020
4309 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

LSUFanHouston


Posted by JellyRoll
Member since Apr 2024
952 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

Being in corporate tax for 13+ years makes me more qualified than you


Been a tax attorney for 14 years. Try again, sparky.


Oops
Posted by TDTOM
Member since Jan 2021
20949 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

Or it can go in the pockets of CEOs


Posted by Lynxrufus2012
Central Kentucky
Member since Mar 2020
16335 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 2:50 pm to
Bingo! Tax cuts are not annual revenue reductions while spending cuts are. Plus tax cuts tend to increase government revenue as people stop tax avoidance practices and spending cuts more.
Posted by lazlodawg
Member since Sep 2017
540 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

quote:
FY 2016 $3.27 trillion
FY 2017 $3.32 trillion
FY 2018 $3.33 trillion <- Most provisions of the TCJA go into effect.
FY 2019 $3.46 trillion
FY 2020 $3.42 trillion
FY 2021 $4.05 trillion
FY 2022 $4.90 trillion
FY 2023 $4.44 trillion
FY 2024 $4.92 trillion <- 47% Increase since tax cuts


Out of curiosity, what's the % increase from 2011-2018?

*ETA: looks like 44.8%


If you're trying to make a point, be sure to cite the pandemic and shutdowns that also occurred during 2011-2018.
Posted by Jimbeaux
Member since Sep 2003
20826 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

So say my taxes get cut in half. How is that money and then some going to get back to the federal government? The bottom line is it isn't.


It’s called the Laffer Curve. You cannot cut all taxes, obviously, but the applicable portion of this theory (very observable) is this:

“One implication of the Laffer curve is that increasing tax rates beyond a certain point is counter-productive for raising further tax revenue.” And furthermore will result in lower revenue.

The devil is in the details, but the increased revenue from a tax cut is contingent on the previously high taxes being a hindrance on the economy.

A bigger economy means a bigger pool to draw from.

As you can guess, and I’m not denying, there are many factors that contribute to the overall expansion, stagnation, or recession of the economy. Nevertheless, higher taxation puts a downward pressure on the economy, and lower taxes allows for growth.

quote:

I mean any guy with basic economic sense will understand that cutting a revenue source for the federal government will not result in an increase in revenue.


You still seem to mingling the ideas of absolute revenue dollars verses tax rates, by which we mean taking a percentage of income taxes.

Another common false implicit assumption that is often made is that there is a set amount of wealth/money. You might be thinking that if the government takes less money, than obviously that money goes elsewhere, and viola, less revenue.

By allowing money to remain in the economy, it actually spurs growth. More money to invest. More money to expand. More cogs and more widgets. More efficiency with expanded technology that can now be afforded, and thus more productivity per worker.

35% of a 1 lb of good coins = .35 lb of gold coins

32% of a 1.5 lb of gold coins = .48 lb of gold coins

Remember that this discussion began with a simple formula that if Trump cut taxes, it would result in 1.5 T less in revenue. That math was wrong.

It certainly is a fact that too much tax cutting and not enough spending control/cutting will result in bigger deficits.

And if Trump pushes an economic formula that passes and results in higher deficits, his voters, even avid fans, will be quite pissed.

This is one of many differences between conservatives and liberals, who support their candidates regardless of outcomes because, darn it!, those Republicans are simply evil!
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
39147 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 4:01 pm to
quote:

The last Trump tax cut took money out of the unproductive government's hands and put it into the people's hands and the productive economy. The result was a net rise in tax revenue.


Great.

We still ran a deficit.

I don’t want a smaller deficit. I want no deficit.

Keep cutting spending.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
39147 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 4:02 pm to
quote:

You balance a budget by spending less, not by stealing more money from citizens to pay for your stupid laundering projects, dipshit


We are not cutting spending enough.

Dipshit
Posted by YouKnowImRight
Member since Oct 2023
2142 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 4:03 pm to
quote:

$1.5T


If that's over 10 years, it's only $150 billion a year. Pennies on the dollar.
Posted by The_Duke
Member since Nov 2016
3877 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 4:13 pm to
quote:

I don’t want a smaller deficit. I want no deficit.


To have a “balanced budget” your money going out has to equal your money coming in.

We would have to tax at a rate of 100% for the country to not operate in a deficit.

There will always be a deficit, and that’s a good thing.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
281843 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 4:14 pm to
quote:


We are not cutting spending enough.

Dipshit


They cant without it adversely affecting key economic indicators.

Which is why it will not happen, and the can will get kicked down the road.
Posted by CDawson
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2017
17969 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 4:19 pm to
quote:

$4.5T in tax cuts, $1.5T spending cuts. Why TF does no one want balanced budget??? How about $1.5T in tax cuts and $4.5T in spending cuts?


How about both. It’s apparent our govt is so corrupt it could rob on a 80% decrease in revenue and spending.
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