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Message
re: The Episcopal Church unveils the new LGBTQ+ Pride Shield
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:02 am to slaughlin
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:02 am to slaughlin
quote:
I've been a Believer for 51 years. This news is heartbreaking, but certainly not unexpected. The same Scripture that is the source of our strength, doctrine, hope, and understanding is the same Scripture that tells us things will get darker and darker until that glorious day when Jesus returns.
Come, Lord Jesus!
In many respects a church is not unlike a business. It doesn't survive long term without continued "customers". The number of people (at least in the US) attending services is probably down across all denominations. Particularly among younger people. So I think many church leaders are looking at it from more of a "business" approach than a spiritual approach and saying "how can we make sure we continue to attract 'customers' considering our current customer base is 'aging?" But in doing so they are doing what MANY businesses are doing...misreading the market because of the leftist/progressive slant of the media/social media.
If you consume media/social media you would get the (incorrect) impression that a large number of Americans are gay. There was a 2019 poll where the participants estimated 25% of the US population was gay when the actual number was around 4%. Because of that, the churches are saying "we have to move in this direction if we want to attract future customers." But the reality is the people they are targeting will probably NEVER be customers. Progressives and religion don't exactly go hand in hand. The churches are chasing a future that doesn't exist and, in the process, running off their current customer base and turning off those most likely to be future customers at a MUCH higher rate.
The Bud Light fiasco is a perfect example. Bud Light was the highest selling beer in the US...by a large margin. Their customer base was primarily blue-collar, middle class Americans who largely lean conservative. But their marketing gurus felt "society is changing and we have to change with it to survive". So they ran a very progressive campaign. One that even if effective would only cater to a VERY small % of the population. Even smaller when you consider the number of beer drinkers within that small subset. In doing so, they ran off a ton of their loyal customers and turned off a lot of would be customers.
Most people who are religious and attend church services have what are considered to be traditional conservative values. Just because the media refuses to cater to them and they are not overly vocal on social media doesn't mean a very large group of them doesn't exist. The younger people who exist within that group are your future customers because they are the ones most likely to value religion and be a part of the church. The progressive left views "progressiveism" as their religion. They aren't suddenly going to switch religions just because you, as a centuries old church, paint your logo with rainbow colors.
I was baptized and confirmed Catholic. I mostly attend Methodist services because my wife is Methodist. Frankly, I enjoy attending the Methodist service more than I ever did Catholic services because I find the people in the Methodist church to be a bit more genuine in their faith. That said, the pastor in the Methodist church I attend leans very left. It comes out occasionally in his sermons, but not to the point where it turns off the congregation. However, a few weeks back following the UMC's decision to essentially allow gay clergy/marriage (or at least not expressly prohibit it) the pastor was giving a sermon to the congregation where he was apologizing for the "wrongs" the church committed upon homosexuals. I would estimate the % of homosexuals within the congregation is well less than 1%. From my observation the disgust within the congregation during the sermon was clearly evident. Not just among the older members. But all of the congregation. The thought in my mind at that time was "how many people is this policy change going to turn away vs. how many people is is going to bring in?) I would bet that number is probably 10:1, 50:1, 100:1
0
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:13 am to tiggerthetooth
I do music for an episcopal church here in GA, this is just sad to see and goes against like 90% of the congregation's beliefs.
I feel like administration of the church is like administration of the government - a hopelessly out of touch minority forcing unwanted decisions on everyone else
I feel like administration of the church is like administration of the government - a hopelessly out of touch minority forcing unwanted decisions on everyone else
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:20 am to Champagne
quote:
So, your claim that the Catholic Church is shattering into pieces is not supported by facts. You may be praying for this to happen, but, it is not happening now.
Stop with your projection. Though I have my differences with the Catholic church I have natural respect for it due to it still being a big part of my ancestorial past.
IDC what is written down. I care about works I see with my own eyes, and the Catholic Church has been used to destroy many many millions of lives. It destroyed Latin America early last century, and now it's heavily working to destroy our nation. It still keeps nations south of us down. That doesn't even include the social destruction of society your leaders have/are supporting.
The Catholic Church has lost it's way, not saying people like you, but people like you are turning a blind eye cause you can't/won't accept its errors and that it needs correction.
This post was edited on 5/30/24 at 10:22 am
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:25 am to Champagne
quote:
You are hating on my Church and yet it is your Protestantism that is shattering into pieces. Your hate is misdirected.
I'm not hating on it, I'm calling it out for it's actual known issues. You are just to sensitive to see how you are not accepting what is planly in front of your face.
Its intervention time for Catholics like you. It's hard to face but it's not out of hate. At least not from me.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:37 am to Flats
quote:
I think the above is more accurate.
This will be a weird comparison but it makes sense to me -
I see a lot of similarities between the plights of modern protestantism and western liberalism.
Both (protestantism and western liberalism) accomplished amazing things and growth in a way the "old world" could not/did not. Both were more pliable (in practices, not necessarily beliefs), resonated with people and made faith/ideas real to people, and at least for a time, probably did a much better job creating earnest/genuine true believers in the respective cause.
However, over time, that pliability gets abused, there are fewer hurdles to being broadly and slowly corrupted in small ways that aren't always noticeable at the time. There is less accountability, and they (modern protestantism/western liberalism) are poorly equipped to defend themselves from those threats, most of which eventually come from "within." And then one day, the exceptions have swallowed the rule.
But as mentioned, it's going to work itself out. It's just going to mean that faithful protestants and catholics are on respective islands in a way that hasn't really been the case for much of the American story.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:46 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Pettifogger
You'd probably appreciate this, if you haven't read it before.
In 1969, Joseph Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) wrote "What the Church Will Look Like in 2000." It still rings true about the future of the faith.
Here are a couple of excerpts.
quote:
We have arrived, then, at the present day, and find ourselves looking towards tomorrow. Today, likewise, the future of the Church can and will issue from those whose roots are deep and who live from the pure fullness of their faith. lt will not issue from those who accommodate themselves merely to the passing moment, or from those who merely criticize others, and assume that they themselves are infallible measuring rods; nor will it issue from those who take the easier road, who sidestep the passion of faith, declaring false and obsolete, tyrannous and legalistic, all that makes demands upon men, that hurts them and compels them to sacrifice themselves. To put this more positively: the future of the Church, once again as always, will be reshaped by the saints, by men, that is, whose minds probe deeper than the slogans of the day, who see more than others see, because their lives embrace a wider reality. Unselfishness, which makes men free, is attained only through the patience of small daily acts of self-denial. By this daily passion, which
alone reveals to a man in how many ways he is enslaved by his own ego, by this daily passion and by it alone a man‘s eyes are slowly opened. He sees only to the extent that he has lived and suffered. If today we are scarcely able any longer to become aware of God, that is because we find it so easy to evade ourselves, to flee from the depths of our being
by means of the narcotic of some pleasure or other
quote:
Let us go a step further. From the crisis of today the Church of tomorrow will emerge – a Church that has lost much. lt will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning. lt will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices it built in its palmy days. As the number of its adherents diminishes so will it lose many of its social
privileges. In contrast to an earlier age, it will be seen much more as a voluntary society, entered only by free decision. As a small society it will make much bigger demands on the initiative of its individual members. But in all of the changes at which one might guess the Church will find its essence afresh and with full conviction in that which was al ways at its
center: faith in the triune God, in Jesus Christ, the Son of God made man, in the presence of the Spirit until the end of the world. In faith and prayer it will again recognize its true center, and experience the sacraments again as the worship of God and not as a subject for liturgical scholarship.
LINK
This post was edited on 5/30/24 at 10:51 am
Posted on 5/30/24 at 12:00 pm to Tasseo
Champagne quote:
You are hating on my Church and yet it is your Protestantism that is shattering into pieces. Your hate is misdirected.
Well stated. Truth.
1) The RCC has so many know past AND present obvious issues I've lost count.
2) In their collective vanity and misunderstanding of Scripture, neither its hierarchy or adherents will ever concede to having ANY serious issues that threaten Salvation
3) Perpetual so-called "victim of 'Catholic' hate" Champagne hypocritically and un-Biblically tosses boulders at Bible-believing Christians yet denies his overt hostility.
Corrections and criticisms are NOT close to the same as "hate" or "phobic" delusions.
One can either worship Church orgs, "Saints", contrived rites, rituals and dogma as Men define and demand, OR, worship and celebrate the Lord the Divine-inspired "Church" as Jesus Christ and the Apostles define it.
MOREVER:
Which of the above claims Entry to the Kingdom of God impossible and "Anathema" without pledging a loyalty creed/oath to its "Church" ONLY?
Which of the above claims Entry to the Kingdom of God simply a matter of acknowledging the Gospel message taken to heart -- along with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ ?
You are hating on my Church and yet it is your Protestantism that is shattering into pieces. Your hate is misdirected.
quote:
Tasseo quote:
I'm not hating on it, I'm calling it out for it's actual known issues.
You are just too sensitive to see how you are not accepting what is planly in front of your face.
Its intervention time for Catholics like you. It's hard to face but it's not out of hate. At least not from me
Well stated. Truth.
1) The RCC has so many know past AND present obvious issues I've lost count.
2) In their collective vanity and misunderstanding of Scripture, neither its hierarchy or adherents will ever concede to having ANY serious issues that threaten Salvation
3) Perpetual so-called "victim of 'Catholic' hate" Champagne hypocritically and un-Biblically tosses boulders at Bible-believing Christians yet denies his overt hostility.
Corrections and criticisms are NOT close to the same as "hate" or "phobic" delusions.
One can either worship Church orgs, "Saints", contrived rites, rituals and dogma as Men define and demand, OR, worship and celebrate the Lord the Divine-inspired "Church" as Jesus Christ and the Apostles define it.
MOREVER:
Which of the above claims Entry to the Kingdom of God impossible and "Anathema" without pledging a loyalty creed/oath to its "Church" ONLY?
Which of the above claims Entry to the Kingdom of God simply a matter of acknowledging the Gospel message taken to heart -- along with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ ?
Posted on 5/30/24 at 12:02 pm to Bigdawgb
quote:
forcing unwanted decisions on everyone else
Find another church, one that is grounded in Biblical teachings and not willing to bend to the whims of the world...
Posted on 5/30/24 at 12:07 pm to Champagne
quote:
Champagne:
NO CATHOLIC HATE AT ALL ON TIGERDROPPINGS, FOLKS!
STOP.
Your incessant persecution complex (as you toss stones, rocks and trash continually at Bible-believing Christians) is like a computer program, running like clock-work. It's absolutely pathetic, hypocritical, and...patently untrue.
Support your church. State your side of the debate. But cut the "muh-Catholic hate!!" nonsense.
This post was edited on 5/30/24 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 5/30/24 at 12:20 pm to Tasseo
quote:
I see with my own eyes, and the Catholic Church has been used to destroy many many millions of lives. It destroyed Latin America early last century, and now it's heavily working to destroy our nation. It still keeps nations south of us down. That doesn't even include the social destruction of society your leaders have/are supporting.
True history dynamic.
quote:
The Catholic Church has lost it's way, not saying people like you, but people like you are turning a blind eye cause you can't/won't accept its errors and that it needs correction.
There seems to be an entitlement and inherent "infallibility" within the RCC hierarchy as well as among its very flock that prevents it from heeding more conservative voices OR making corrections to un-sound Scriptural, Gospel and heretical practices and policies.
Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò is one of several RCC leaders and voices of reason who have been up to the task of resetting and straightening things out -- but he (and others) has been punished and sanctioned for his troubles.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 12:35 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I see a lot of similarities between the plights of modern protestantism and western liberalism.
Both (protestantism and western liberalism) accomplished amazing things and growth in a way the "old world" could not/did not. Both...resonated with people and made faith/ideas real to people, and at least for a time....
However, over time...[became] slowly corrupted in small ways that aren't always noticeable at the time....threats [emerged] , most of which eventually come from "within." And then one day, the exceptions have swallowed the rule.
I appreciate the insight and call on out collective compromise and fall from faith which has caused us the current (increasing) grief.
quote:
But as mentioned, it's going to work itself out.
Will it? People seem to be prioritizing The World far more at the expense of their faith and steadfastness in the Lord.
I've wondered about the collapse of morals, in virtue, in faith and abandonment of the Gospel in recent decades. Then I am reminded of Scripture (and just how easy it's become to be misled, misguided, and indifferent to maintaining our faith through the Holy Spirit and focus on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.)
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction,
and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” ~ Matthew 7:13-14
Posted on 5/30/24 at 12:55 pm to Liberator
It will. It may not be pleasant, but it (we'll) remain. The above-quoted piece from Benedict lays it out succinctly/accurately IMO.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 1:06 pm to Liberator
quote:
There seems to be an entitlement and inherent "infallibility" within the RCC hierarchy as well as among its very flock that prevents it from heeding more conservative voices OR making corrections to un-sound Scriptural, Gospel and heretical practices and policies.
Very true. Which prevents them from thinking they can separate themselves as they are to connected to their communication with God going thru their leadership.
Don't get me wrong, I totally get Protestants and others tend to defend their own Church negatives, but we at least directly communicate all with God to help us navigate the troubles, especially if it's time to depart, instead of somewhat going thru the people doing bad in hopes God gets the message. Not saying all Catholic leaders are bad but full trust would seem hard unless you truly know them, which is another thing that doesn't seem easy.
At the end of the day as Christian Americans we are seeing the evil destruction of our faith and nation. We need to stop bickering, put it in God's hands everyday, and fight it all back like many of our Western European ancestors did. We can discuss the nuances of our Christian faiths once we have won.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 1:12 pm to SloaneRanger
Meanwhile, over at the United Methodist Mother Church Clergy Meeting: LINK
Those churches that "disaffiliated" from the UMC are looking pretty good about now.
Those churches that "disaffiliated" from the UMC are looking pretty good about now.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 2:07 pm to Tasseo
quote:
IDC what is written down. I care about works I see with my own eyes, and the Catholic Church has been used to destroy many many millions of lives. It destroyed Latin America early last century, and now it's heavily working to destroy our nation. It still keeps nations south of us down. That doesn't even include the social destruction of society your leaders have/are supporting.
So you admit that you don't care what the Catholic Church's Catechism says, because you want to dismiss it all with a list of conclusory statements about the wrongs of the Catholic Church. You have provided no evidence for your conclusions.
The Church "destroyed Latin America"? Are you aware of the Leftist Revolutionary government that took power in Mexico and made being a Catholic Priest a crime punishable by death? I'm referring to the Cristero War. Perhaps you are on the same side as the Leftist Revolutionaries who were executing Priests in Mexico back then.
The evidence of history contradicts your prejudiced belief system.
Here's info about the Cristero War, which will have no impact on your opinion because you are not here to learn anything.
LINK
Posted on 5/30/24 at 2:33 pm to cssamerican
quote:
I don’t understand how you can read and believe in the Bible and support this.
Money
Posted on 5/30/24 at 2:42 pm to jizzle6609
quote:
I don’t understand how you can read and believe in the Bible and support this.
quote:Satan
Money
Posted on 5/30/24 at 2:53 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
Meanwhile, over at the United Methodist Mother Church Clergy Meeting: LINK
WOW.... #Twilight Zone-like meeting. What a trainwreck.
Once the ol' "Clergy Meeting" starts off with, "My pronouns ARE...." (one after another after another), it's all over. Right over a cliff.
"How dead is it, Jim?"
> 
Posted on 5/30/24 at 3:01 pm to tiggerthetooth
Gays must be their main audience.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 3:57 pm to tiggerthetooth
I hope every single one of these people repent of their blasphemy and embracing of those things which God hates.
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