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The Collapse Of Empires: Revisiting Will Durant’s CAESAR AND CHRIST….

Posted on 4/11/22 at 7:55 pm
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 7:55 pm
I’ve recently been re-reading Will Durant’s magisterial Caesar and Christ, Volume III of the eleven volume The Story of Civilization that ended up being a collaboration with Will’s student and eventual wife Ariel. Each book in the series is a self-contained narrative yet so rich and limpid is the writing, reading individual chapters randomly will offer the reader a great reward.

Any study of history indicates that all Empires follow a similar trajectory. The Roman Empire lasted for 3 centuries.

Can anyone deny that the American Empire is showing signs of the late stages of Imperial decay? How long will the American Empire continue?




VIDEO LINK: Will Durant On Why Rome Fell….

….The fall of Rome, like her rise, had not one cause but many, and was not an event but a process spread over 300 years. A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within. The essential cause of Rome’s decline lay in her people, her morals, her class struggle, her failing trade, her bureaucratic despotism, her stifling taxes, her consuming wars.

….Political anarchy accelerated economic disintegration and economic decline promoted moral decay; each was the cause and effect of the other. Barbarian inroads and centuries of mining the richer veins had doubtless lowered Rome’s supply of precious metals. In Southern Italy, erosion and the neglect irrigation canals by a diminishing peasantry and a disordered government had left Italy poorer than before. The cause, however, was no inherent exhaustion of the soil, no change in climate, but the negligence and sterility of harassed and discouraged men.

….What caused this fall of population? Above all, family limitation. Practiced at first by the educated classes, it had now seeped down to the proletariat classes named for it’s fertility; by A.D. 100, it had reached the agricultural classes.

….Moral decay contributed to the dissolution. Sexual excesses may have reduced human fertility while the avoidance or deferment of marriage had a like effect; the making of eunuchs increased as Oriental customs flowed into the West.

….The virile character that had been formed by arduous simplicities and a supporting faith relaxed in the sunshine of wealth and the freedom of unbelief; men had now — especially in the upper and middle classes — the means to yield to temptation and only expediency to restrain them.

….Urban congestion multiplied contacts and immigration brought together hundreds of cultures whose differences rubbed themselves into indifference. Moral and esthetic standards were lowered by the magnetism of the mass: sex ran riot in freedom while political Liberty decayed.

….If Rome had not engulfed so many men of alien blood in so brief a time, if she had passed all these newcomers through her schools instead of her slums, if she had treated them as men with a hundred potential excellences, if she had occasionally closed her gates to let assimilation catch up with infiltration, she might have gained new racial and literary vitality from the infusion, and might have remained a Roman Rome, the voice and citadel of the West.


Posted by SirWinston
Say NO to War
Member since Jul 2014
104464 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 7:57 pm to
This why I love TD
Posted by aubie101
Russia
Member since Nov 2010
4099 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 7:58 pm to
Will circle back to this. Thanks for the post.
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
55729 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 8:02 pm to
When every institution in a nation has been infested with political corruption and immoral leadership the country will eventually suffer a severe decline in societal stability and economic prosperity.
Posted by 1984Tiger
North Carolina
Member since Apr 2006
7729 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 8:05 pm to
Those who don’t learn from the past are destined to repeat it
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 8:06 pm to
quote:

The Roman Empire lasted for 3 centuries.


Posted by Bearcat90
The Land
Member since Nov 2021
2955 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 8:09 pm to
quote:

the making of eunuchs increased as Oriental customs flowed into the West.


Posted by blowmeauburn
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2006
8062 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 8:11 pm to
Thanks. I listened to his “lessons of history” a few months back and it really opened my eyes. One of those books where your perspective changes after reading it.

Anyways history repeats itself because man is the same as he was 1000 years ago. We are foolish to think we are any different.
Posted by Gr8t8s
Member since Oct 2009
2585 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 9:00 pm to
Does it dive much in to the welfare state of late Rome and government intervention in the economy, people on the dole, etc? Just curious.
Posted by ironwood
Member since Aug 2021
333 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 9:00 pm to
I recently bought the entire set. I really want a set of The Great Books of the Western World 1952 edition. Going greek, would Hesiod call this the age of the nano particle?
Posted by Hurricane Mike
Member since Jun 2008
20059 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 9:03 pm to
quote:

Those who don’t learn from the past are destined to repeat it


Dims don't learn from anything
Posted by Kafka
I am the moral conscience of TD
Member since Jul 2007
157336 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 9:08 pm to
quote:

Can anyone deny that the American Empire is showing signs of the late stages of Imperial decay? How long will the American Empire continue?
Please take 2:36 to watch this video
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
63593 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 9:23 pm to
quote:

The Roman Empire lasted for 3 centuries.


The Byzantines say hold on just a second.
Posted by Kafka
I am the moral conscience of TD
Member since Jul 2007
157336 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 9:44 pm to
quote:

quote:

The Roman Empire lasted for 3 centuries
The Byzantines say hold on just a second
Roman Empire - The Beatles
Byzantine Empire - Paul solo

Roman Empire - The Velvet Underground
Byzantine Empire - David Bowie

Roman Empire - The Move
Byzantine Empire - ELO

Roman Empire - The Byrds
Byzantine Empire - Tom Petty

Roman Empire - The Faces
Byzantine Empire - Rod Stewart solo

Posted by CajunTiger92
Member since Dec 2007
2868 posts
Posted on 4/11/22 at 9:57 pm to
I have that whole set and it’s fantastic. It’s been years since I read parts of Caesar and Christ.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 4/12/22 at 10:01 pm to
quote:

Please take 2:36 to watch this video


‘Big Daddy’ is, and always has been, the enemy.

Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 4/12/22 at 10:03 pm to
quote:

Byzantine Empire - Roman Empire




Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
35316 posts
Posted on 4/12/22 at 10:13 pm to
Nice. Reminds me of reading Charles Norris Cochrane's Christianity and Classical Culture, at LSU. Dense. I checked it out from Middleton. I may be the last person to have done so.
Posted by SingleMalt1973
Member since Feb 2022
24305 posts
Posted on 4/12/22 at 10:20 pm to
Wife and I were just talking about this the other day in relation to teaching k-3 graders about gender identity. How we are well down the road that led to the destruction of Rome. I might add they were toppled by a bunch folks about like,the CCP at the time.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 4/12/22 at 10:34 pm to
quote:

Does it dive much in to the welfare state of late Rome and government intervention in the economy, people on the dole, etc?
Yes, in a sub-chapter of “The Collapse of Empire” titled “The Socialism Of Diocletian.”

…[Diocletian] proceeded with Caesarean energy to remake every branch of government. He transformed the aristocracy by making it ….an Oriental graduation of dignities, profusion of titles and complexity of etiquette. He and his colleagues revised the Empire into ninety-six provinces ….and appointed civil and military rulers for each division. It was a frankly centralized state which considered local autonomy as a luxury of security and peace and excused it’s dictatorship by the needs of actual, or imminent, war.

….In years of peace, Diocletian faced the problems of economic decay. To overcome depression and prevent revolt he substituted a managed economy for the law of supply and demand. He distributed food to the poor at half the price or free and undertook extensive public works to appease the unemployed. To ensure the supply of necessaries for the cities and armies, he brought many branches of industry under complete state control, beginning with the import of grain.

….Such a system could not work without price control. In 301, Diocletian and his colleagues issued an Edictum de Pretiis, dictating maximum legal price controls for goods or wages. The Edict was until our time the most famous example of an attempt replace economic laws by government decrees.



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