re: The 501(c)(3) Trojan Horse in the American Church (another LBJ gift)

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I'm not. Churches are.

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When churches get the power to tax the government, this will be a brilliant point.

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I'm interpreting the Bible based on its own context, showing objectively that its own language is proving you wrong every time. You keep throwing out "contradictions" and I keep showing you how they are not logical contradictions. Instead of refuting me, you move on to the next lie.

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I refute you, show you why you are wrong using scripture, then you deny the inspired words of God by making up some kind of hairbrained nonsensical theory, and then I move on.

Chew on this:

John 1:18

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No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

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John 5:37

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And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

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John 6:46

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Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

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1 John 4:12

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No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

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Genesis 3:8

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And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

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Genesis 5:22

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Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.

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Genesis 17:12

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When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.

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Genesis 26:24

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And the LORD appeared to him the same night and said, “I am the God of Abraham your father. Fear not, for I am with you and will bless you and multiply your offspring for my servant Abraham’s sake."

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Genesis 32:30

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So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered.

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Exodus 24:9-10

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Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and they saw the God of Israel. There was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.

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Exodus 33:11

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Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. When Moses turned again into the camp, his assistant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.

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Job 42:5

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I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You.

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1 Kings 11:9

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And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice

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There’s a lot of context missing in your assessment. Let me ask you this- if someone could answer all of your questions sufficiently, would you become a Christian? Based on your post history, I have doubts. Your problem is not educational/intellectual- you need a heart transplant. Only God can provide that. I pray His mercy finds you.

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I refute you, show you why you are wrong using scripture, then you deny the inspired words of God by making up some kind of hairbrained nonsensical theory, and then I move on

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You "refute" nothing. You make a conjecture about God based not on the Scriptures or even historical interpretations, but based on your own novel desires. As I've shown time and time again, you ignore basic interpretative rules (for any writing, not just the Bible) in your quest to embarrass yourself with your Scriptural ignorance. You are ignorant of even the most basic of Christian doctrines.

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Chew on this:

John 1:18
John 5:37
John 6:46
1 John 4:12
Genesis 3:8
Genesis 5:22
Genesis 17:12
Genesis 26:24
Genesis 32:30
Exodus 24:9-10
Exodus 33:11
Job 42:5
1 Kings 11:9

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What is there to "chew on"? Clearly you are not familiar with the concepts of Christophany and anthropomorphic language.

For instance, God is a spirit, so He doesn't have physical hands and feet, nor does He has a face in order to see Him "face to face" in a literal sense. Moses never saw God's "face" because the Father doesn't have a face to be seen, yet God manifested His glory to Moses, which is why God hid him in the cleft of a rock while His glory passed by. Moses writes about God's "hand", "back", and "face", yet those are just using humans terms to describe a perception of the imperceptible. God's glory is too much to be beheld by mere moral eyes, which is why God veiled His glory to Moses, only showing him as much as could be borne without killing him. Yet God blessed Moses by speaking to him as a friend, and talking to him as if they were "face to face" from the glory cloud.

Likewise for Jacob and the creation account. Likewise for Job and so on. Christ existed prior to the incarnation as a human, and therefore--like an angel--He could manifest Himself in a visual form to be seen (and even wrestled with), though His nature was entirely spiritual at the time, as He had not yet taken on human form with a human nature.

These are interpretations that are entirely consistent with the Scriptures and which do not necessitate a logical contradiction as you are trying (and failing) to show. This is not some novel interpretation, either, as these things have been supported by the Scriptures and historical commentary for two millennia.

You refuse to see the truth, and it is absurd to you, as the Scriptures also declare (1 Cor. 1:18).

I find it interesting that you don't actually engage much in these discussions. You just do one drive-by attack after another, not seeking to defend your preposterous accusations, but only shrug off any retort and move on to the next pack of lies that you got from some website that is hostile to Christianity.

You need to repent and bend the knee to the Lord.

I knew you’d ignore and contort the scriptures. All those people saw and heard “God”. Jesus said no one has ever seen or heard his father. It’s pretty simple. And it’s remarkable for your to deny it as I gave you the scriptures. You even admit that “God” was seen and heard and wrestled with, yet.. you deny he was seen and heard. I know you can read in John and 1 John that no one has ever heard or seen God. Think about that hard. For you it’s a paradox or something, because for you there’s a “seeming” contradiction but certainly the Bible, written and edited by bronze and Iron Age goat herders and Greek and Roman aristocracy cannot have any errors.

Surprise! You’re right that there’s no contradiction here but for the wrong reasons.

Jesus’ father is not the god YHWH. Plain and simple Jesus’ father Theos is the actual high god, El Elyon, the head god - loving god - of the Canaanite pantheon. The evil angel YHWH who calls himself “God”, who Paul called the “God of this world”, actually killed Jesus (unknowingly, for if they’d known he was the lord of glory they wouldn’t have killed him). Jesus is not of the Jewish priesthood but of Melchizedek. Jesus came to redeem (ransom) mankind from the evil YHWH who was in charge of the world. YHWH demands blood sacrifice (even of humans, which I’ve shown you but you deny). Jesus was the final sacrifice for the atonement of sins - the blood of a divine being. Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law, but fulfilled the law by making himself low (unlike YHWH he did not aspire to become godlike) and willfully gave himself over to be sacrificed, and then his father Theos metamorphosized him back into his divine body on the third day.

Jesus can’t redeem - to trade divine blood for the saving of mankind - from himself. That’s illogical. If the cartel kidnaps someone and holds them hostage, you pay the ransom to get the person back. Jesus did that. The law was a curse as Paul put it. He said Jesus redeemed us of that curse by becoming cursed himself.

Jesus referred to the Jews as being of their father, the Devil. Who’s Jesus’s father? Not the Devil (not YHWH). Who’s the father of the Jews? YHWH.

YHWH was a jealous god who inherited the Jews from El Elyon in Deut 32:8-9. Boy did El Elyon screw up. No one’s perfect after all. YHWH commanded the Jews to only worship him, and murdered hundreds of thousands for worshipping other gods or just worshipping him in the wrong manner (golden calf, wrong kind of incense, etc). YHWH gave the Jews the Torah, the law, which was a curse. YHWH admits the law was a curse and was not good and that he even commanded them to cause their children to pass through the fire for him. El Elyon (Theos) righted the ship and had a plan to defeat his out of control angel son YHWH. Send the highest archangel, the beloved, who would only earn his name to become Jesus after his death to be a final sacrifice to redeem humans from the scourge of YHWH.

Every single thing I mentioned above is straight out of the ESV of the full Catholic canon (not the edited and deleted Protestant Bible who based their canon on medieval Jewish scripture and the whims of Martin Luther).

Did Melchizedek slaughter a goat and spread blood on an alter to bless Abraham? Nah, he broke out the bread and wine. Who else broke out the bread and wine?

Hey I got one more for you. How long did flood last? Was it 40 days or 150 days, and why’d Noah stay in the ark for over a year?

Why not just pray? I don't need a liaison between God and me. If you're having trouble deciding on which way to vote then just ask God.

Like I said- your problem is not intellectual. You are a very intelligent person.

Luke 18:17 (NASB95): Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”

I believe that Jesus had people like you and me in mind when He said this. At some point, you just have to trust Him. I believe that God’s word is written in a way that, if you’re looking for a reason to believe- you will find it. Conversely, if you’re looking for a reason to doubt- you’ll find it as well.

Romans 8:29–30 (NASB95): For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

The doctrine of election/predestination is biblically sound and indisputable. God has chosen, based on His divine foreknowledge, before day one creation. The one thing that is arguable, is why. He does harden hearts, blind eyes, and deafen ears. But, He also draws some to Himself. The Bible never says why, other than for His good pleasure. Well, what pleases God? Those who do the will of the Father.

Why was Lucifer cast down? The simple answer is pride. I think if we all honestly examine our own hearts, we will all find the same pride. The same desire to be God that Eve had in the garden. Perhaps not as it relates to daily life, but certainly as it relates to final judgement.

Perhaps He has decided that some would receive the Gospel and some would not. As the Creator, He is well within His rights to do so. To argue with that would only put you squarely in the position of Lucifer- and we see how that works out.

At the end of it all, we are all just trying to figure it out- some for our own selfish reasons and some for the love of others. My eyes well up and my heart breaks at the thought of one soul being damned for eternity. How much more so does God’s heart break for us?

The real question is- what is it that is really keeping you from believing? Is it really a few perceived inconsistencies in scripture? Or, is it your own selfish pride and arrogance? Your inescapable desire for the fleeting things of this world? Money? Power? Sexual perversion? Truly I say to you that all of these things will pass away- in the blink of an eye.

Romans 1:19–20 (NASB95): 9 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

I don’t believe in atheists. I don’t believe that there has never been a point in anyone’s life, where they have recognized that there is a God. We can all argue about who it is, and what that God expects- but, if we can put ourselves aside, and see the forest through the trees, I believe we will find that the God of Abraham is the Lord of us all. Amen. I love you brother. I pray that His grace, mercy, and wisdom, find you soon. Amen.