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Started By
Message
re: The .30-06 conspiracy theory is the theory with the most legs.
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:04 am to Schleynole
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:04 am to Schleynole
quote:
Bad load would be my guess but let's say it's possible what percentage of the time does a 30.06 round not exit when hitting the neck like with Kirk? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000? I don't think it's possible at all but if it is it's minuscule
Where the bullet then? If it didn’t exit they’d have it right?
You’ve yet to answer that very simple question.
1
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:07 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:None of that matters in the neck. The human neck is not as dense as a deer chest cavity. If I don't hit a rib bone going in, the exit is about the same size as the entrance hole. If I do hit ribs, it makes a little bigger hole going out, but it still goes out. I guess it would be possible to cut the powder back to the point that velocity very low like a 22lr (which would decrease the energy). However, then the bullet drop would be HUGE and you'd have fire it in like an artillery round. Lightest grain I can see is 110. 110 grain shows 3400 ft/sec and 2800 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle.
What was the projectile? FMJ, soft point, polymer tipped, hollow point.. Was it a reload or factory? 110gr or 220gr? What type of powder?
This post was edited on 12/14/25 at 11:09 am
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:11 am to RollTide4547
quote:
None of that matters in the neck.
I see youre not much of a firearms guy
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:15 am to Sassafrasology
I have no doubt that the official narrative is the right one, but I haven’t followed this closely past day one. Are we sure the bullet didn’t ricochet? Are we sure there is no exit? Are we sure the whole projectile hit him (it didn’t break apart prior to impact)? There is just a ton of variables that I’m not sure we will know until court.
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:16 am to RogerTheShrubber
As a comparison on force. I also bow hunt. My bow is 20 years old, so it is not fast by today's standards. The hunting arrow I use is about 450-500 grains and I pull around 65 lbs. Arrow's speed 5 feet in front of the bow is 220 ft/sec give or take. The energy created is about 50 ft/lbs. My shots have all been less than 50 yards. The arrow will lose some speed and have less energy at impact, but lets ignore that. I've never had an arrow not exit the deer, if I hit the chest cavity. Hitting high and into the spine or wide into the shoulder, the arrow didn't exit. The energy of my arrow is 1/50th of the energy of a 30-06.
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:20 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Might matter in a moose neck or grizzly neck or a buffalo neck, but it won't matter in a human neck. I could drive a #2 Phillips screw driver thru a human neck with my bare hands and there is no way I can generate 2400+ ft/lbs of force with my hands.
I see youre not much of a firearms guy
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:27 am to Sassafrasology
quote:
Can you provide a link with a neck stopping an.30-06 round from -200 yards and a 9 degree incline stopping a .30-06 round besides CK?
It’s out there on IG somewhere. Ballistic gel with bone model. The injury site was the size of a tennis ball.
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:38 am to bbvdd
quote:
Where the bullet then? If it didn’t exit they’d have it right?
Yes they should have the bullet
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:41 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Human neck is what 4 inches front to back. Deer neck is all muscle, human not so much.
The only air in a neck is the esophagus. Everything else is extremely dense.
Here is a link for a penetration test in plywood. The 7.62-54r went thru 7 pieces of plywood stacked together (4 3/4 inches thick). The 7.62 has less energy than a 30-06.
Bullet Penetration
This post was edited on 12/14/25 at 11:43 am
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:49 am to Sassafrasology
Bullets are all different by brand and construction, and perform differently, even in the same caliber and fired from the same gun.
Anyone who hunts large game (deer and larger) knows this.
Cheap hollow point bullets will expand and fragment upon impact, and bonded core bullets will expand and penetrate more depending on the construction of the bullet.
There’s so many different brands and types of bullets on the market, and they all perform differently upon impact.
Unless a “test” is done with the exact same bullets, fired from the exact same rifle, the results will vary.
Anyone who hunts large game (deer and larger) knows this.
Cheap hollow point bullets will expand and fragment upon impact, and bonded core bullets will expand and penetrate more depending on the construction of the bullet.
There’s so many different brands and types of bullets on the market, and they all perform differently upon impact.
Unless a “test” is done with the exact same bullets, fired from the exact same rifle, the results will vary.
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:50 am to RogerTheShrubber
I see RogerTheCockSucker has tucked tail and left building.....
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:54 am to RollTide4547
quote:
Here is a link for a penetration test in plywood. The 7.62-54r went thru 7 pieces of plywood stacked together (4 3/4 inches thick). The 7.62 has less energy than a 30-06
How is that test in any way analogous to Mr Kirk's shooting?
Posted on 12/14/25 at 11:57 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Really? The bullet can penetrate over 4 1/2 inches of plywood and keep going, but conspiracy theorists are claiming the bullet didn't exit his neck? No friggin way.
How is that test in any way analogous to Mr Kirk's shooting?
Posted on 12/14/25 at 12:01 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:What won't vary is the amount of force created by the 30-06 round at a given bullet weight and given velocity. I've see people here arguing that it could have been a "bad round". If the round were bad and the explosion did not pack the punch of a normal 30-06 round the bullet would have been flying slow and hit low on target. WAY low.
Unless a “test” is done with the exact same bullets, fired from the exact same rifle, the results will vary.
Posted on 12/14/25 at 12:05 pm to RollTide4547
quote:
Uganda (AK-47…rifle round…27-year-old woman): Shot in the face…bullet lodged in her neck. CT confirmed no exit wound. [Journal of Medical Case Reports]
U.S. pediatric case (13-year-old girl): Rifle cartridge lodged in abdomen. Retained until surgery. No exit wound.[PACR Journal]
Forensic review (2022): Large review of gunshot wounds shows retained bullets are common…fragmentation…bone strikes…and tissue drag prevent exit even in rifle wounds. [PMC 9462949]
Thoracoabdominal case (autopsy, 2022): Bullet traversed chest and abdomen but remained lodged. Exit not guaranteed. [MDPI Diagnostics]
Translation: if you think “.30-06 = always exit,” you’re ignoring documented medical reality
LINK
Posted on 12/14/25 at 12:06 pm to RollTide4547
The point is you are completely ignoring the construction of the projectile or the resistance it encountered, two of the three things that matter in this calculus.
An FMJ and OTM bullet will perform tremendously differently for the same impact speed and resistance. A .308 OTM bullet (sierra matchking for example) impacting a neck at 2500 fps might only penetrate 3" before it completely comes apart and on Mr Kirks shooting, a bullet like that might not have even destroyed the vertebrae. A .308 homogenous copper bullet ( barnes TSX) impacting a neck at 2500 fps could penetrate 10 necks and still be going.
Thats what all the conspiracy nuts are missing in this. Yall are hung up on the headstamp and old rifle when in reality the construction of the bullet is by far the biggest factor in what happened.
An FMJ and OTM bullet will perform tremendously differently for the same impact speed and resistance. A .308 OTM bullet (sierra matchking for example) impacting a neck at 2500 fps might only penetrate 3" before it completely comes apart and on Mr Kirks shooting, a bullet like that might not have even destroyed the vertebrae. A .308 homogenous copper bullet ( barnes TSX) impacting a neck at 2500 fps could penetrate 10 necks and still be going.
Thats what all the conspiracy nuts are missing in this. Yall are hung up on the headstamp and old rifle when in reality the construction of the bullet is by far the biggest factor in what happened.
Posted on 12/14/25 at 12:09 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Somebody needs to tell that you the deer I've killed over the years.
s. Yall are hung up on the headstamp and old rifle when in reality the construction of the bullet is by far the biggest factor in what happened.
Posted on 12/14/25 at 12:10 pm to the808bass
quote:Someone forgot to tell this to all the deer I've killed over the years....
the808bass
Posted on 12/14/25 at 12:16 pm to hawgfaninc
Because 30% of the American public would buy it. The FBI lied about Ruby Ridge, JFK Las Vegas, etc. etc. They can push the unbelievable narrative that a 30 06 that can smash a cinderblock every time can somehow be stopped by a person‘s neck bone.
Posted on 12/14/25 at 12:40 pm to RollTide4547
And you are proof that has nothing to do with understanding terminal ballistics
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