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Started By
Message
re: Teacher Pay Raises
Posted on 10/28/19 at 12:39 pm to cahoots
Posted on 10/28/19 at 12:39 pm to cahoots
quote:Yes. I'm aware. And, that shortage is for the reasons I have stated.
I mean, when you drill down, there is a massive shortage of qualified teachers in certain districts and in certain subjects.
quote:Agreed. So, find the list of slots you need filled, pay those slots more.
The only way to get them filled with better people is to pay more.
quote:This is simply not factually correct. Moreover, it's a horrible idea on its face.
And the only way to do that is to pay everyone somewhat more
And, I've got bad news for you. Teacher quality isn't why bad districts are bad.
1
Posted on 10/28/19 at 12:52 pm to ShortyRob
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/24/20 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 1:00 pm to cahoots
quote:This has nothing to do with your emotions. I'm not "fixated" on anything. There IS, REPEAT, there IS a huge differential. That schools and you refuse to accept it doesn't change reality.
I know you are fixated on having some huge differential in teacher pay,
quote:Clearly you don't get it because I'm not talking about what's learned at home.
I get it. Kids learn a lot at home.
quote:I agree it won't.
But the least we can do is not pay inner city math teachers peanuts and when they complain, replace them with teach for america folks that have never be trained to teach duck duck goose
Alas, neither does paying them a ton.
The single greatest predictor of school success is who goes to the schools and who their parents are. Not teacher pay. Not policies. Not system. WHO GOES.
In fact, if you put me up against a statistician(which I am also but still)..........and I was ONLY allowed to park outside the schools when the bell rang...........and he was allowed access to teacher pay, teacher pay compared to surrounding districts, student teacher ratio etc etc etc..................I will KICK HIS arse in predicting which schools are performing best.
It won't be close.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 1:14 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Subject those private schools that receive public tuition dollars, to the same accountability / grading scheme, as the public schools do.
No.
While I’ve been agreeing with you 90+% on this thread, this is the worst way to go about competition. This puts all schools under control of the politicians, and that equals killing competition.
Mom and dad are in the service, when they leave they each take their tax dollar tuition to the school or training of their choice. Locally they could pick public like UNO, or private like Tulane, or religious like Loyola. Why can THEY not make the same choice for their children?
Now agreement on grade schools. I attended Catholic schools until middle school. Transferred to public school. They had an A, B, and C class. Was put in C classes. Circus. Didn’t give teachers problems (Catholic training). Placed into B class where I actually heard the teacher teaching for the first time. This class was way behind me. Easy As. Finally put in A class. Was behind. This class was superior to my Catholic class academically but was more advanced in sex and drugs as well.
The wife and I chose the Catholic Parish with the best schools and house hunted in only those parishes. This is no longer a concern and we will move soon.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 1:30 pm to ShortyRob
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/24/20 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:10 pm to Gaspergou202
quote:
, this is the worst way to go about competition. This puts all schools under control of the politicians, and that equals killing competition.
I don't think publishing a grade/ranking puts the private schools under government control.
quote:
Mom and dad are in the service, when they leave they each take their tax dollar tuition to the school or training of their choice. Locally they could pick public like UNO, or private like Tulane, or religious like Loyola. Why can THEY not make the same choice for their children?
First off, that GI Bill is in exchange for a significant contribution - military service. That's much different than every kid who is school-age getting a voucher. I think there is a pretty big difference.
Having said that... I'm not saying the government should control where the voucher goes. I'm saying the government should, as a matter of receiving public money, be allowed to subject those schools to the same grading scheme that the public schools get. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want public money, the public deserves to know what kind of quality education is being given, in exchange for public funding.
quote:
Was put in C classes. Circus. Didn’t give teachers problems (Catholic training). Placed into B class where I actually heard the teacher teaching for the first time. This class was way behind me. Easy As. Finally put in A class. Was behind. This class was superior to my Catholic class academically but was more advanced in sex and drugs as well.
I think all of that is pretty standard.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:14 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Having said that... I'm not saying the government should control where the voucher goes. I'm saying the government should, as a matter of receiving public money, be allowed to subject those schools to the same grading scheme that the public schools get. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want public money, the public deserves to know what kind of quality education is being given, in exchange for public funding.
This
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:26 pm to cahoots
quote:Private schools aren't paying their advance calc teachers what they pay their art teachers. If they are, then their calc teachers aren't good.
I am basing my differential expectations on how it plays out in private school education. That is the most logical way to do it. You are basing it on whatever is in your own head.
quote:Alas, they can't kidnap people to teach.
Yeah. And policymakers have to focus on the things they can change, not the things they can't. One of those things they are in control of is the quality of candidate that gets the job.
I have a friend that taught in a shite district for roughly 20% more than the best district in Tidewater.
After 2 years, he left, for the best district. He was common. The amount of money it takes for people to want to risk their physical health just to teach is more than the taxpayer can afford.
quote:
It's one variable of many. Schools aren't magically going to get substantially better if you change only that variable, but it's part of a holistic approach to improve public education
I'm going to break bad news to you. There's nothing actually wrong with public education other than the reality that the public goes there.
And, the stuff that IS wrong with Public education, is almost entirely a function, not of teacher quality, but of stupid waste of time shite that schools shouldn't even be asked to do that takes the time of doing what they should be doing.
quote:Link me to a few examples. Good luck. You're looking for unicorns.
Lots of districts have implemented multi-pronged approaches and achieved better results. And the demographics of the incoming students did not change.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:37 pm to SlidellCajun
I favor the Rispone method. Not everyone deserves the same raise and some don’t even deserve to get paid.
I dont. They will try to force some metric of how the teachers stay on the state curriculum or how the kids do on the standardized tests. In an effort to get their raises it will make the situation worse and worse.
My kids go to a magnet School, all that matters is test scores and adherence to the curriculum. It is miserable. My daughter went to the school 12 years ahead of my sons, before all of this shite was shoved down the schools throats...she was light years ahead of my boys in math and science and Writing. One boy is pretty average the other is very bright....she dwarfs both of them on twice the information presented in class and 1/4 the homework. It was a pleasure, now it is a disaster.
I dont. They will try to force some metric of how the teachers stay on the state curriculum or how the kids do on the standardized tests. In an effort to get their raises it will make the situation worse and worse.
My kids go to a magnet School, all that matters is test scores and adherence to the curriculum. It is miserable. My daughter went to the school 12 years ahead of my sons, before all of this shite was shoved down the schools throats...she was light years ahead of my boys in math and science and Writing. One boy is pretty average the other is very bright....she dwarfs both of them on twice the information presented in class and 1/4 the homework. It was a pleasure, now it is a disaster.
This post was edited on 10/28/19 at 2:38 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:39 pm to ShortyRob
quote:BINGO.
And, the stuff that IS wrong with Public education, is almost entirely a function, not of teacher quality, but of stupid waste of time shite that schools shouldn't even be asked to do that takes the time of doing what they should be doing.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:50 pm to SlidellCajun
I think teachers should be pained more across the board.
I also think there should be merit based pay increases for the good ones as well.
One problem is: How do you decide who earns the merit based increase? Not sure what their plan is, but I’d guess it would be based on test scores. And that is really a terrible metric for determining who is and isn’t a good teacher.
I also think there should be merit based pay increases for the good ones as well.
One problem is: How do you decide who earns the merit based increase? Not sure what their plan is, but I’d guess it would be based on test scores. And that is really a terrible metric for determining who is and isn’t a good teacher.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:51 pm to Eurocat
quote:
It will punish the teachers in the worst/poorest areas, not the worst teachers.
Its not the same teaching the kids of doctors vs the kids of junkies and prisoners
This is absolutely true.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:53 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
We do NOT have a shortage of good teachers. We have a shortage of good teachers in SOME specialties.
The biggest shortage is good parents. And until that gets addressed in a meaningful way, things will never really improve.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:54 pm to tigerfoot
I mean, ya know. Johnny can't read, but we're gonna make sure he gets his block of anti-bullying training.
Janie can't read, but, she can put a fricking condom on a dick!
Neither of them can read, but, we do need to make sure they know what they are officially supposed to think about Transgenders.....
I could go on
Janie can't read, but, she can put a fricking condom on a dick!
Neither of them can read, but, we do need to make sure they know what they are officially supposed to think about Transgenders.....
I could go on
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:54 pm to SlidellCajun
quote:
Ask a good principal and they know who the top teachers are
A ton of schools have bad principals though.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:55 pm to memphis tiger
quote:
The biggest shortage is good parents. And until that gets addressed in a meaningful way, things will never really improve.
Yup
Cahoots has a bad case of the "but we have to do SOMETHING" syndrome.
No. Not really. We don't. If what you're proposing to blow taxpayer money on doesn't actually address the problem, then no, we don't have to "do something".
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:57 pm to memphis tiger
quote:
A ton of schools have bad principals though
You want to give teachers a raise, yet you are admitting that there are turds all throughout the system.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 2:59 pm to memphis tiger
quote:How does this rebut the point made?
A ton of schools have bad principals though.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:00 pm to theunknownknight
Teacher merit is pretty subjective, to be honest.
This post was edited on 10/28/19 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:02 pm to El Segundo Guy
quote:
You want to give teachers a raise, yet you are admitting that there are turds all throughout the system
Let me clarify.
I think teachers as a profession are grossly underpaid.
There is zero incentive for bright, caring people who would be great educators to become teachers.
I think teacher pay should increase substantially and there should be merit based increase.
I also think there should be higher standards and much easier methods to remove bad teachers.
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