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Solar Panels on homes

Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:33 am
Posted by burger bearcat
Member since Oct 2020
8845 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:33 am
Is there any real advantage to having these, if you don't live off the grid? I understand they may be a good option if you have the spendable income to blow on them. I know someone (left of center) who lives in the NorthEast who is thinking of getting them, and he is trying to sell them because he will get his investment back after like 20 years. And can use them as power backup with a battery. He won't admit that it is probably more of a virtue signaling thing.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162217 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:36 am to
Probably still a very poor ROI unless you can take advantage of some tax benefits. But if you don't care about the financial aspects and value the benefit of having power during an area outage then there is likely some value. If course you'd need a battery storage system in parallel but I could see how this might be appealing to the elderly. Particularly those who are well off.
Posted by olemissfan26
MS
Member since Apr 2012
6237 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:37 am to
High up front costs, low ROI, not worth it unless you want to be off the grid or you just like gadgets and new stuff.

If he wants to virtue signal tell him to get a Covid vax tattoo or put his pronouns in his bio. Much cheaper and more effective way of telling everyone you like soy.
Posted by oklahogjr
Gold Membership
Member since Jan 2010
36761 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:37 am to
I mean it's probably not gonna be a great investment if that's the idea. Can also affect resale of home depending on new buyers feelings on having to maintain them and their value
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
53273 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:38 am to
Maybe the tech is better now than since Kunstler did this, but this was a pretty funny installment of Cluster---- Nation.
quote:

The solar electric I installed on the house nine years ago is down. It’s supposed to feed that monster called the grid. Since April, I noticed that the electric bill is creeping up way beyond the usual seventeen bucks that the electric company charges home solar producers for the privilege of feeding their system — which, let’s face it, has a downside for them because the intermittency of so-called alt-energy disorders their operations.

It’s counter-intuitive. Many people, I’m sure, assume that the more solar units feeding the grid, the better. Strangely, not so. Electric companies work much better when the production and flow of current is absolutely predictable and under their control — like, when they decide to fire up the natgas on generator number three or tune down the hydro turbines. It’s much harder to run the system with little dribs and drabs of electricity trickling in from hither and yon. But alt-energy is good PR for the government, so they do whatever they can to promote or even compel its use.

I got a whopping folio of tax breaks and subsidies from the state and federal government when I decided to put solar electric on my house in 2013, though it finally still cost a lot: $35-K. I had intimations of living through a chaotic period of history, and the decision was consistent with my general theory of history, which is that things happen because they seem like a good idea at the time. Getting a home solar electric rig seemed like a good idea.

So, last week, after considerable hassle with my solar company setting up an appointment for a techie to visit and evaluate the problem here, the guy came up (at $150-an-hour) and informed me that my charge controller was shot. The charge controller processes all those chaotic watts coming from the solar panels on the roof into an orderly parade of electrons. He also told me that my back-up batteries — for running critical loads like the well-pump during grid outages — were at the end of their design life. Subtext: you have to get new batteries.

There are four big ones in a cabinet under the blown charge controller and the inverter (for turning direct current into alternating current that is the standard for running things). The techie had some bad news, though. New building codes forbid his company from replacing the kind of batteries I have, which are standard “sealed cell” lead-acid batteries. Some bullshite about off-gassing flammable fumes. Now the government requires lithium batteries, which would cost me sixteen-thousand dollars ($16-K) more to replace than new lead-acid batteries.

Now, it’s theoretically possible for me to replace the less-expensive lead-acid batteries — they’re still manufactured and sold — but the catch is: I’m on my own getting them and installing them. I’m in the middle of that learning-curve right now. These particular batteries cost about $850-each for the four of them, plus a hefty charge for “drop-shipping” about three hundred pounds of lead and plastic. I will almost certainly go that way, though. A new charge controller will run about $2-K. All together, replacing these components represents a big chunk of change.

At the risk of sounding like some kind of pussy, I confess that this whole business of repairing my solar electric system has put me into a welter of anxiety and fury. I am trapped in the cage of sunk costs, a.k.a. the psychology of previous investment. Not only do I have $35-K (in higher-value 2013 dollars!) tied up in all this equipment — the solar panels themselves, the wall of electronic devices, the conduit, control panels, and digital read-outs — but now I have to dump thousands more into it after only nine years. It pisses me off because I should have known better. I walked with eyes wide shut into the pit of techno-narcissism.

The hyper-complexity of a home solar-electric system is extreme. There are hundreds of little integrated components that can blow, all of it adding up to a case of guaranteed fragility. There are no easy fixes or duct-tape work-arounds for any of it. I can’t make any replacement parts in my garage. They come from faraway factories via supply lines that get sketchier every day on trucks that don’t operate profitably at $6.50-a-gallon diesel fuel.

In a low-grade epiphany while going through this ordeal last week, I realized that back in 2013, instead of getting the solar electric system, I could have bought the Rolls Royce of home generators and buried a 500-gallon fuel tank outside the garage, and had a manual water pump piggy-backed onto the well, and maybe even purchased a fine, wood-fired cookstove — and had enough money left over for a two-week vacation in the South-of-France. Silly me.

LINK /
Posted by OccamsStubble
Member since Aug 2019
4979 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:39 am to
Solar hot water always has been, for most of the US, a solid solution and ROI. Energy? not yet, 59 years and counting
Posted by mooseofterror
USA
Member since Dec 2012
1338 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:43 am to
Back in 2010 there were 1)Federal Tax credit of 30% and 2) Louisiana State Tax Rebate of 50% the cost of solar system installed. I went ahead and installed a 5kW system and in the end paid around $7K for a $35K system. ROI was 3-4 years at that point so it made sense. I'm no tree hugger, but that was just free money and our Gubment spends a lot of stupid money on many more stupid things.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162217 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:43 am to
quote:

Maybe the tech is better now than since Kunstler did this, but this was a pretty funny installment of Cluster---- Nation.

I would say 10 years later the tech is certainly better
Posted by TigerOnTheMountain
Higher Elevation
Member since Oct 2014
41773 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:44 am to
The technology doesn’t exist yet to make them viable for heavy day to day use. If someone tells you they’re efficient and worth the investment, they’re full of shite. I get about 25w of output per 100w panel.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162217 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:47 am to
They're also better utilized on thoughtfully placed arrays. The chances that the roof of your house is prime efficient real estate for optimal solar efficiency is pretty low. But as the energy yields and costs of panels improve it will eventually be a better ROI
Posted by TigerOnTheMountain
Higher Elevation
Member since Oct 2014
41773 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:50 am to
quote:

But as the energy yields and costs of panels improve it will eventually be a better ROI


It’s not exactly a new technology and basically no improvement has been made in multiple decades. At some point we need to accept that the technology has peaked.
Posted by Ricardo
Member since Sep 2016
4879 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:51 am to
Seems like there are a lot of, ifs, that need to line up for solar to be a viable investment.

I think the main advantage would be self-sufficiency; since it will take a while to start seeing savings.

For most people it doesn't make sense to invest in solar. (That's why you don't see them everywhere.) Some areas it just isn't worth it. I think if I lived in a state where the cost of electricity is high, and/or unreliable, then I'd be more inclined to do it.
Posted by Zarkinletch416
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Member since Jan 2020
8374 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:54 am to
If you live along the gulf coast, Solar Panels are impractical. Category 5+ hurricanes with their hurricane-force winds will blow them suckas clean off your roof. How about those nasty thunderstorms with golfball or baseball-sized hail? Then you're stuck waiting for someone to come and replace your 'cherished' Solar Panels.

But let's face it. The crooks in Biden's Environmental Protection Agency will continue to demonize Oil & Gas to the point where people can't afford their electric bills and are forced to switch to solar panels.

But there is a solution to this dilemma......

Trump 2024 - He's in your corner.




This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 8:06 am
Posted by Homesick Tiger
Greenbrier, AR
Member since Nov 2006
54207 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:54 am to
I've always wondered how solar panels I see on homes hold up when it hails. If hail can damage shingles I'd think hail would do major damage to panesl?
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162217 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:54 am to
quote:

It’s not exactly a new technology and basically no improvement has been made in multiple decades.

This is pure ignorance

quote:

At some point we need to accept that the technology has peaked.


It seems the only thing that has peaked is your knowledge of the technology



The cost improvements in just one decade from 2010 to 2020 have been nothing short of remarkable
Posted by LB84
Member since May 2016
3348 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 7:58 am to
quote:

Back in 2010 there were 1)Federal Tax credit of 30% and 2) Louisiana State Tax Rebate of 50% the cost of solar system installed. I went ahead and installed a 5kW system and in the end paid around $7K for a $35K system. ROI was 3-4 years at that point so it made sense. I'm no tree hugger, but that was just free money and our Gubment spends a lot of stupid money on many more stupid things.


One of my middle school teachers who is also a member of the church I grew up in also took advantage of this. I don't know the numbers but I know he took advantage of the federal tax credit. He put them on his barn and said almost every month the electric company was writing him a check for 20-50 bucks.
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 7:58 am
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162217 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:00 am to
That's a cool story bro

But the most important thing we must learn is that nothing ever improves. Ever. All technology is static.





Posted by Wtodd
Tampa, FL
Member since Oct 2013
67482 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:00 am to
quote:

Solar Panels on homes

Look like shite
Terrible ROI like some have said
Expensive
Posted by CoachChappy
Member since May 2013
32535 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:01 am to
quote:

Probably still a very poor ROI unless you can take advantage of some tax benefits.


This is correct. I had huge incentives $20k on a $25K system. After 4 years, I hit break even on my original $5k out of pocket investment. Every month going forward is money in my pocket. Without the incentives, it would take you about 25 years to get a benefit which is about the projected life of a system.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162217 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:02 am to
I'd be interested in the Tesla roof tiles

But stupidly they're not available for "new construction" homes which is the pinnacle of stupidity

That's the only time it might be somewhat practical to install them
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