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re: Since we can deficit spend what’s the point of taxation?
Posted on 8/10/23 at 10:31 pm to deltaland
Posted on 8/10/23 at 10:31 pm to deltaland
quote:
As long as we are the reserve currency, just keep printing money and let us keep our earnings tax free. The end result will eventually be the same
You have my vote.
0
Posted on 8/11/23 at 6:20 am to deltaland
quote:
let us keep our earnings tax free.
Half the country doesn't pay any tax.......
Posted on 8/11/23 at 6:41 am to David_DJS
quote:
quote:
Since we can deficit spend what’s the point of taxation?
Income redistribution.
We could print only and do that
This post was edited on 8/11/23 at 6:45 am
Posted on 8/11/23 at 6:43 am to TigerAttorney
quote:
Because they need to fund the black budget for the military industrial
complex. How many trillions has the pentagon lost over the last decade?
We could print only and do that too
Posted on 8/11/23 at 6:53 am to deltaland
quote:
As long as we are the reserve currency, just keep printing money and let us keep our earnings tax free. The end result will eventually be the same
We at least need to have enough money to pay the interest payments on the debt.
But the federal reserve screwed the pooch on this one by increasing interest rates. Now with higher rates, you need more revenue to service that debt. Of course we could be some dead beats and borrow just to pay the interest.
At some point we are going to need inflation to make the national debt more palatable, but wages and standard of living values would need to grow with it otherwise we all go to the poor house. And sorry for those that saved a million. Because a million won’t buy what could buy a few years ago, it may be just enough for bread and milk at the grocery store.
Posted on 8/11/23 at 7:04 am to TigerAttorney
quote:
How many trillions has the pentagon lost over the last decade?
Rumsfeld announced 2 trillion in lost dollars on Sept 10th 2001. Something happened the very next day...you know "some people did some stuff."
Been reported that the very area where the Pentagon was hit housed the folks that were looking into that.
Posted on 8/11/23 at 7:10 am to Tarps99
I wanna live like Fed Reserve Policy works
: I will just roll this months bills into next months and use an IOU for the payoff in a yet future month plus interest and of course can’t forget to include interest owed this month towards one of the items in the budget that makes up next months bills.
You’d have to wait 15-20 years for me to explain in specific details though as I will be too busy trying not to get Epstein-ed in my fraud and racketeering sentences to explain using examples.
: I will just roll this months bills into next months and use an IOU for the payoff in a yet future month plus interest and of course can’t forget to include interest owed this month towards one of the items in the budget that makes up next months bills.
You’d have to wait 15-20 years for me to explain in specific details though as I will be too busy trying not to get Epstein-ed in my fraud and racketeering sentences to explain using examples.
Posted on 8/11/23 at 7:16 am to TigerAttorney
quote:
How many trillions has the pentagon lost over the last decade?
https://www.markey.senate.gov/news/press-releases/markey-joins-sanders-grassley-in-bipartisan-push-to-audit-the-pentagon-and-end-wasteful-spending
quote:
Last year, the DOD failed its fifth audit and was unable to account for over half of its assets, which are in excess of $3.1 trillion, or roughly 78 percent of the entire federal government.
This post was edited on 8/11/23 at 7:18 am
Posted on 8/11/23 at 7:36 am to Tandemjay
quote:
This is the next shoe to drop. This is why the GOPe funded 87,000 new armed IRS agents. This shoe will bring down the elites and their plans.
I thought the right was for the "rule of law"? Is enforcing the tax laws that are currently on the books and collecting the tax owed not a good thing?
Why are you okay with tax cheats not playing by the rules and paying their taxes?
Posted on 8/11/23 at 7:51 am to deltaland
quote:
Since we can deficit spend what’s the point of taxation?
We moved from shackles and chains to theft and treadmills. The theft is the 16th amendment. The federal government steals your labor. The purpose of the treadmill keeps you working to ensure they have labor to steal. Just when you think you are catching up the FR with the authority of congress prints more money and devalues your dollar forcing you to keep you producing. In order to beat the system you have to produce sufficient enough assets in a short time period and get those assets working in your favor at a rate at least equal to the government-imposed inflation rate. That is the only way to beat the system. It's going to be a real problem when too many people say frick it, I'm not producing anymore labor for you to steal. IDK where that tipping point is.
Posted on 8/11/23 at 7:55 am to deltaland
MMT explains it. Taxation is only necessary when inflation gets high.
Of course it does not work. Covid spending was a small sample of MMT.
Of course it does not work. Covid spending was a small sample of MMT.
This post was edited on 8/11/23 at 7:58 am
Posted on 8/11/23 at 8:14 am to Powerman
The government consistently spends more than people pay each year in taxes, so in a way why bother with taxes? Of course fiat money is unsustainable and has always failed catastrophically.
Posted on 8/11/23 at 8:51 am to deltaland
quote:
Imagine a world where we eliminated all social and welfare programs, social security, Medicare, etc. cut the bureaucracy in half
Well you just took away 50% of the nations voting public’s meal ticket right there.
quote:
defense budget was cut by 1/3
There’s another 5-10%
So the intractable issue we as conservatives face is that in order to advance the agenda you outlined and which I am generally in favor of moving towards we would need to encourage a minimum of 10% of the voting public to vote to end their own job.
The hard truth as it currently stands is that we are living in a central economy which is only sustainable if the federal government shovels money into its various inefficient spending programs.
I believe that it’s far preferable to restructure the economy to be more independent of the federal money printing and taxation machine, but there is a sizable percentage of the public who haven’t known anything but dependence on that entity for generations and who currently lack the skills and in some cases work ethic to survive outside of its current velvet handcuffs.
In other words, short of a split or a full economic collapse I can’t see how the right will ever achieve what you propose because the current system is too comfortable for too many people.
Posted on 8/11/23 at 9:13 am to deltaland
There are a couple of reasons I can think of.
1. Taxation ensures the relevancy and status as the primary form of currency of the USD. For example, you can technically use other currency such as bitcoin in transactions, but you cannot pay your taxes with it. At the end of the day, you MUST convert a portion of whatever other form of currency into USD to pay your taxes. Because USD is what is accepted as tax payment, there is always an inherent need for it, ensuring it remains relevant.
2. Taxation is a tool for economical control. One big reason the government needs USD to remain relevant is because (a) they control it, and (b) as its controller, they can use it as tool to maintain control over the economy, to regulate and (ideally) stabilize the economy. Without control over the currency, the government couldn't really do too much to fix a poor economy. You can actually think about the terms in your question as two separate tools for economic control.
deficit spending = money creation
taxation = money deletion
Both of those functions are necessary to maintain control.
This is my good faith understanding of it. However, I realize that there are other caveats that may be at play in reality...like the fact that not everyone has to pay taxes.
1. Taxation ensures the relevancy and status as the primary form of currency of the USD. For example, you can technically use other currency such as bitcoin in transactions, but you cannot pay your taxes with it. At the end of the day, you MUST convert a portion of whatever other form of currency into USD to pay your taxes. Because USD is what is accepted as tax payment, there is always an inherent need for it, ensuring it remains relevant.
2. Taxation is a tool for economical control. One big reason the government needs USD to remain relevant is because (a) they control it, and (b) as its controller, they can use it as tool to maintain control over the economy, to regulate and (ideally) stabilize the economy. Without control over the currency, the government couldn't really do too much to fix a poor economy. You can actually think about the terms in your question as two separate tools for economic control.
deficit spending = money creation
taxation = money deletion
Both of those functions are necessary to maintain control.
This is my good faith understanding of it. However, I realize that there are other caveats that may be at play in reality...like the fact that not everyone has to pay taxes.
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