- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Shapiro and Bishop Barren conversation
Posted on 12/16/18 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 12/16/18 at 9:53 pm
Has anyone caught this Sunday Special yet on youtube?
LINK
I look forward to Ben's guests and these good conversations.
That said....(and I am going to say I respect Catholics- but am not one of them)...this Bishop sounded crazy to me. Catholics please respond and tell me how you see it.
1) He claims non Christians and atheists can enter heaven by following their conscience. (he mistakenly quotes John 3:15 in doing so). To me this is pure Christian Universalism and I do not think the official teachings of the Catholic Church support this.
2) He goes on literally saying that all organizations have similar levels of child abuse in the as the Catholic Church has and that essentially they are getting picked on and furthermore that it was good this happened to shed light on the issue for everybody. Wowza
Again- lots of good Catholics out there and I have respect for you and think that the original and true teachings of the Church are of high value.....but this guy came of as a liberal nut to me.
Do you see it differently?
LINK
I look forward to Ben's guests and these good conversations.
That said....(and I am going to say I respect Catholics- but am not one of them)...this Bishop sounded crazy to me. Catholics please respond and tell me how you see it.
1) He claims non Christians and atheists can enter heaven by following their conscience. (he mistakenly quotes John 3:15 in doing so). To me this is pure Christian Universalism and I do not think the official teachings of the Catholic Church support this.
2) He goes on literally saying that all organizations have similar levels of child abuse in the as the Catholic Church has and that essentially they are getting picked on and furthermore that it was good this happened to shed light on the issue for everybody. Wowza
Again- lots of good Catholics out there and I have respect for you and think that the original and true teachings of the Church are of high value.....but this guy came of as a liberal nut to me.
Do you see it differently?
15
Posted on 12/16/18 at 9:56 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:
He claims non Christians and atheists can enter heaven by following their conscience. (he mistakenly quotes John 3:15 in doing so). To me this is pure Christian Universalism and I do not think the official teachings of the Catholic Church support this
I’m not catholic, but I did say a rosary once. That’s bullshite. The pope has pissed me off on a few things but I haven’t heard him preach universalism yet.
John MacArthur was a better listen.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:00 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:deny, deny, deny.
He goes on literally saying that all organizations have similar levels of child abuse in the as the Catholic Church has and that essentially they are getting picked on and furthermore that it was good this happened to shed light on the issue for everybody
When caught red handed, claim Everybody does it, too, without a shred of evidence
I’ve seen this playbook before. Hmmmmmm......
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:03 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:
Do you see it differently?
The Word of God as presented in the Bible is clear as to who will NOT enter heaven.
"Yet you know well enough that wrong-doers will not inherit God’s kingdom. Make no mistake about it; it is not the debauched, the idolaters, the adulterous, it is not the effeminate, the sinners against nature, the dishonest, the misers, the drunkards, the bitter of speech, the extortioners that will inherit the kingdom of God" - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Repent of your sins and convert. Accept the mercy of God and change your life. We all need to saving mercy of God.
This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:21 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:
1) He claims non Christians and atheists can enter heaven by following their conscience.
That doesn't sound Christians, but it sounds very Catholic.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:30 pm to GeorgePaton
quote:
"Yet you know well enough that wrong-doers will not inherit God’s kingdom. Make no mistake about it; it is not the debauched, the idolaters, the adulterous, it is not the effeminate, the sinners against nature, the dishonest, the misers, the drunkards, the bitter of speech, the extortioners that will inherit the kingdom of God" - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
We all are these things.
quote:
We all need to saving mercy of God.
Indeed, which is why Christmas is so very special!
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:38 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:The vast majority of people who have lived on this earth did so prior to Christianity coming into existence. Even in present day, more than half of people born in the world have very little exposure to Christianity. The idea that you have to follow rules that so few people in the history of humanity have been exposed to in order to reach heaven seems unrealistic (assuming heaven is real, although there is no real evidence).
1) He claims non Christians and atheists can enter heaven by following their conscience. (he mistakenly quotes John 3:15 in doing so). To me this is pure Christian Universalism and I do not think the official teachings of the Catholic Church support this.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:58 pm to crazyatthecamp
1) If heaven is real, I hope being a good person and following a moral conscience is more important in gaining entry than which book someone believes in.
2) I strongly disagree. Yes, there is probably some abuse occuring within most large organization. No, it is very unlikely that it meets the prevalence of what’s happening in the catholic church.
The organization is inherently shrouded in secrecy and a large portion of the clergy see themselves as the moral elite. That combination is potentially a dangerous one; I imagine it makes it far easier to justify indefensible actions compared to just any given organization.
2) I strongly disagree. Yes, there is probably some abuse occuring within most large organization. No, it is very unlikely that it meets the prevalence of what’s happening in the catholic church.
The organization is inherently shrouded in secrecy and a large portion of the clergy see themselves as the moral elite. That combination is potentially a dangerous one; I imagine it makes it far easier to justify indefensible actions compared to just any given organization.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:56 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:
Bishop Barren
Ummmmm
Did he drop the "F bomb" at 47:56?
Posted on 12/17/18 at 12:04 am to PointsInCase
On the surface this sounds good and just for God to set up.
But didn't the apostles go and preach to convert people? I mean why bother if everyone is saved anyways?
Also let's say this doctrine of universalism has merit... isn't there a distinction between atheists who reject Jesus and those who have never been exposed to Jesus?
In my view its either believe and get heaven or don't and get hell (pretty biblical)
And if you never received sufficient revelation to choose...maybe you are exempt...
(reasonable argument but not too biblical probably)
or wouldn't this be nice... maybe you get a second chance after death when the choices are staring you in the face...(the ultimate mulligan which seems like most people are banking on today) its just not supported in scripture though. (but neither is the trinity right?)
At the end of the day I look to follow Jesus teachings and scripture old and new for what it says and do my best to be sincere about it. At the same time I won't be so bold as to think I have it all figured out...
But it's a safer and more realistic bet in my head than believing we are here by a 1 in 75 trillion chance for no reason
But didn't the apostles go and preach to convert people? I mean why bother if everyone is saved anyways?
Also let's say this doctrine of universalism has merit... isn't there a distinction between atheists who reject Jesus and those who have never been exposed to Jesus?
In my view its either believe and get heaven or don't and get hell (pretty biblical)
And if you never received sufficient revelation to choose...maybe you are exempt...
(reasonable argument but not too biblical probably)
or wouldn't this be nice... maybe you get a second chance after death when the choices are staring you in the face...(the ultimate mulligan which seems like most people are banking on today) its just not supported in scripture though. (but neither is the trinity right?)
At the end of the day I look to follow Jesus teachings and scripture old and new for what it says and do my best to be sincere about it. At the same time I won't be so bold as to think I have it all figured out...
But it's a safer and more realistic bet in my head than believing we are here by a 1 in 75 trillion chance for no reason
Posted on 12/17/18 at 1:46 am to crazyatthecamp
quote:
Again- lots of good Catholics out there and I have respect for you and think that the original and true teachings of the Church are of high value.....but this guy came of as a liberal nut to me.
I haven't listened yet (maybe will tomorrow), but Bishop Barron is absolutely NOT a liberal nut.
ETA: I'm not a fan at ALL of the National Catholic Reporter (not to be confused with the National Catholic Register, which I do like), but this explains a little more about what progressive-minded Catholics think of Bishop Barron.
LINK
This post was edited on 12/17/18 at 1:58 am
Posted on 12/17/18 at 5:17 am to crazyatthecamp
The first part is one I won’t touch. I have no idea who gets into heaven and who doesn’t. Was the good their a Christian? It’s way over my pay grade especially if you factor in God’s mercy and inpenetrable ignorance.
You could want to be so strict as to say Luther was an apostate (remember until then all church’s had apostolic succession not all do now) so under s “strict interpretation do Protestants get in? All I really know is two things 1) I’m working like crazy to live a life befitting of getting into heaven and having faith and trying to have those around me do as well and 2) if I get to heaven I will be surprised by 3 things 1- that I “made” it 2 - by who is there and 3 - by whonisnt there.
On the second point it is true there are studies out there showing abuse insurance claims by companies insuring other organizations show as high or higher rates of abuse.
You could want to be so strict as to say Luther was an apostate (remember until then all church’s had apostolic succession not all do now) so under s “strict interpretation do Protestants get in? All I really know is two things 1) I’m working like crazy to live a life befitting of getting into heaven and having faith and trying to have those around me do as well and 2) if I get to heaven I will be surprised by 3 things 1- that I “made” it 2 - by who is there and 3 - by whonisnt there.
On the second point it is true there are studies out there showing abuse insurance claims by companies insuring other organizations show as high or higher rates of abuse.
Posted on 12/17/18 at 6:35 am to crazyatthecamp
quote:
2) He goes on literally saying that all organizations have similar levels of child abuse in the as the Catholic Church has and that essentially they are getting picked on and furthermore that it was good this happened to shed light on the issue for everybody. Wowza
I'm a former Catholic because I can't give money to the lies of the International Child Rape Cabal any longer.
This institution shuffled kid diddlers around on a carousel for decades and tries to say it's what happens in other organizations. SAD!
Posted on 12/17/18 at 6:51 am to crazyatthecamp
Jesus is the only way.
Posted on 12/17/18 at 7:03 am to bamafan1001
quote:
We all are these things.
I agree we're all sinners. That's why Jesus Christ came...... to save sinners. But fundamental to being saved means the individual must reject his sinful pursuits (repent) and change his/her ways. Case in point. When the mob threw the woman caught in adultery (John 8:7-11) at the feet of Jesus they intended on using the incident to trap Jesus. You know the story. Powerful message of forgiveness and mercy. But remember at the end of that exchange Jesus tells the young woman, "I will not condemn thee either. Go, and DO NOT SIN AGAIN HENCEFORWARD." In other words quit whoring.
As described in the scripture passage (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) I presented in my previous post there are acts (sins) that are considered evil (mortal) and clearly not acceptable within the community of believers.
Bottom line. The sinner must repent, convert, and change ways and not engage in sin henceforth. Realizing the person may be weak and subject to falling again, he/she must trust in the Mercy of God and try again.
Saints are sinners who just kept trying.
This post was edited on 12/17/18 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 12/17/18 at 7:42 am to crazyatthecamp
quote:It is Universalism, and I'm starting to see how Catholics are divided as much as Protestants in reality.
To me this is pure Christian Universalism and I do not think the official teachings of the Catholic Church support this.
I urge you to read the Belgic Confession or something similar.
This flow chart of Catholic soteriology seems to go against Universalism?
Posted on 12/17/18 at 7:43 am to 3nOut
quote:Much better. So articulate and rational.
John MacArthur was a better listen.
Posted on 12/17/18 at 7:45 am to bamafan1001
quote:
"Yet you know well enough that wrong-doers will not inherit God’s kingdom. Make no mistake about it; it is not the debauched, the idolaters, the adulterous, it is not the effeminate, the sinners against nature, the dishonest, the misers, the drunkards, the bitter of speech, the extortioners that will inherit the kingdom of God" - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
quote:
We all are these things.
BUT GOD... (Ephesians 2:4-5, Titus 3:4)
Posted on 12/17/18 at 7:47 am to crazyatthecamp
Catholic Priests have ghey orgies fueled by cocaine liquor and other drugs. This has been happening since medieval times
These Bishops can frick off
These Bishops can frick off
Posted on 12/17/18 at 7:55 am to crazyatthecamp
He’s full of shite if he’s trying to deflect and project onto everyone else the level of pedo the Catholic Church has been engaged in for millennia.
My Catholic friends and I, and I have a few, have discussed this often and most good Catholics agree. Matter of fact not only do they agree, many have their own stories to tell of things they’ve witnessed.
Plenty of Catholics want this shite cleaned up and they want it totally exposed with no bullshite excuses. My friends in Italy, fwiw, all said they loved that HBO special The Pope played by Jude Law, because it forced more conversations about the subject over there than ever before ... not just about pedo in the church but also about financial corruption within the church and also about the church’s lack of openness and transparency.
My Catholic friends and I, and I have a few, have discussed this often and most good Catholics agree. Matter of fact not only do they agree, many have their own stories to tell of things they’ve witnessed.
Plenty of Catholics want this shite cleaned up and they want it totally exposed with no bullshite excuses. My friends in Italy, fwiw, all said they loved that HBO special The Pope played by Jude Law, because it forced more conversations about the subject over there than ever before ... not just about pedo in the church but also about financial corruption within the church and also about the church’s lack of openness and transparency.
Page 1 of 2
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News