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re: Serious question for liberals. This is not bait!
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:22 am to Geekboy
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:22 am to Geekboy
Trump is not the cause of the problems we face. He is a symptom of the problems we've brought upon ourselves. A good portion of America collectively gave a big "frick you" to political correctness and the hijacking of individual sovereignty and Trump is the result. It will be interesting to see if the hubris and callous nature of Trump results in a backlash in Biden's favor or if the "silent majority" really is a thing. I would prefer civil discourse, but I'm afraid the left won't allow that either, so I may just "take a knee" this election. I can't stand Trump, but Biden is the weakest candidate I've seen in a long long time. As a result I'm going to focus on local elections to try and do my part to make things better.
1
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:24 am to TigerAlum2006
quote:
Ummm you can’t post a random table with no source listed, no link, and not even a damn title and expect to be taken seriously. I don’t even know from you post what the population being described is.
Source: U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Fiscal Year 2019 Enforcement and Removal Operations Report
quote:
Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s new promise to halt deportations of illegal immigrants during his first 100 days in office would keep free thousands of serious criminals with long rap sheets sought by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a government report on removals suggests.
The latest ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations report said that 86% of those seized in fiscal 2019 were “aliens with criminal convictions or pending criminal charges.”
The report said that the ERO made 123,128 arrests and that “the criminal history for this group represented 489,063 total criminal convictions and pending charges.” This “equates to an average of four criminal arrests/convictions per alien, highlighting the recidivist nature of the aliens that ICE arrests,” added the report.
Biden, in his promise to pro-immigrant groups, made no mention of the crimes that those he would keep free have committed.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:25 am to roadGator
quote:
Seems it’s you that have no experience with them, their alcoholism and their drug use.
"I've had lunch with many of them..." Next you'll tell me you have a Black friend.
You mean celebrities and their alcoholism and drug use? Or politicians? Or bosses? Or...I mean, you know alcoholism and drug use isn't a moral failing of roofers, right? And healthcare isn't actually tied to whether someone drinks or smokes weed?
It's honestly not funny at all that you can lump entire groups of people together based on occupation, dismiss them as categorically having moral failings, and use it to confirm for yourself that your success (however limited it may be) means you are morally superior. You're a pawn of rich people. You'll defend their system til death. And hopefully you won't follow them then, too. Jesus said something about heaven, a camel, and the eye of a needle. Check it out.
This post was edited on 8/12/20 at 11:28 am
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:27 am to 93and99
quote:
poverty is a choice.
So the people who lost their jobs (and possibly their homes) due to Covid and other disasters had a choice?
There are some people living in poverty who do work very hard trying to get out.
Saying poverty is a choice is nonsense.
Yes, some in poverty chose to not do better but there are many desperately trying to get out. (And working hard to do so).
quote:
Abortion is murder
I agree. I also believe it should be legal. People will get abortions regardless. I prefer them go to a clinic where the procedure can be done safely instead of traveling out of country or done on the black market.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:29 am to Floyd Dawg
quote:
I worked for a company that specifically quit offering healthcare coverage for employees because of Obamacare rules and regulations.
That happened to one of my brothers.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:29 am to Geekboy
I’m sorry, but the poor in American are not the biblical poor.
Yes the Bible says we should help the poor, but it also says if a man doesn’t work then he should not eat (NT). It says man shall eat by the sweat of his brow. This is not a contradiction.
It’s that the Bible classifies the poor as those who work but cannot make ends meet or can just barely make ends meet or are physically disabled. If you are fit enough to stand at an intersection in the hot sun all day for drug money, then you are fit enough to fry some bacon at the Waffle House. If you are disabled you receive disability. We have socialized medicine if your income level is below a certain threshold.
It’s extremely hard to truly be “the poor” in America. We live in an unprecedented time of abundance and wealth and even lowest class Americans eat better and have more creature comforts than every king that existed before this tiny sliver of time.
Helping the poor doesn’t mean financing the lifestyles of drunks, derelicts, and homeless sex offenders.
Yes the Bible says we should help the poor, but it also says if a man doesn’t work then he should not eat (NT). It says man shall eat by the sweat of his brow. This is not a contradiction.
It’s that the Bible classifies the poor as those who work but cannot make ends meet or can just barely make ends meet or are physically disabled. If you are fit enough to stand at an intersection in the hot sun all day for drug money, then you are fit enough to fry some bacon at the Waffle House. If you are disabled you receive disability. We have socialized medicine if your income level is below a certain threshold.
It’s extremely hard to truly be “the poor” in America. We live in an unprecedented time of abundance and wealth and even lowest class Americans eat better and have more creature comforts than every king that existed before this tiny sliver of time.
Helping the poor doesn’t mean financing the lifestyles of drunks, derelicts, and homeless sex offenders.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:29 am to TigerAlum2006
quote:
Oh, nice. Now do capitalism. I mean, for a moment I thought you were...
You need to spend some time outside of the cushy confines of the US. You are uneducated, and you need your eyes opened.
To be clear, I have issues with the form of capitalism we now practice in the US (not competitive enough), but that's at the margin. You have to be retarded to not realize capitalism delivers best for everyone in the economy. Poor Americans don't live as well, and in some ways better, than the average European by accident.
This post was edited on 8/12/20 at 11:38 am
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:30 am to Lsupimp
Try honesty. It won't kill you.
I am being honest. How about you assume honest intent. I state where Biden has dumb policies. Are there any policies Trump has that you think are dumb? List one.
100 day moratorium: Dumb messaging/policy. Trump will hammer Biden on this. It will cost him votes. At the end of the day, violent criminals will still be deported. I don’t buy that ICE will sit on violent criminals for 100 days.
Trump immigration policy probably won him northern swing states. Biden is making an error on some of his immigration policies/messaging. If he sticks to “no walls, no kids in cages“, then he will pick up votes. If he goes left of Obama, then it will cost him.
I am being honest. How about you assume honest intent. I state where Biden has dumb policies. Are there any policies Trump has that you think are dumb? List one.
100 day moratorium: Dumb messaging/policy. Trump will hammer Biden on this. It will cost him votes. At the end of the day, violent criminals will still be deported. I don’t buy that ICE will sit on violent criminals for 100 days.
Trump immigration policy probably won him northern swing states. Biden is making an error on some of his immigration policies/messaging. If he sticks to “no walls, no kids in cages“, then he will pick up votes. If he goes left of Obama, then it will cost him.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:33 am to TigerAlum2006
quote:
Now do capitalism
A truism to remember---Capitalism is the worst possible economic system. Except for all the others.
I will not defend to a Communist who will easily dismiss the deaths of 100 million, the unending merits of Individual Liberty , Private Property, and wealth creation and how by being consistent with human nature, they have led to more human prosperity than any system in human history. I just wish I could drop you in China so you could experience State economic dictates firsthand .
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:34 am to ProfFrink
quote:
So the people who lost their jobs (and possibly their homes) due to Covid and other disasters had a choice?
What does that have to do with people begging for handouts?
I am talking about adults who want everything given to them.
Again , poverty is a choice for an able bodied adult.
quote:
I agree. I also believe it should be legal. People will get abortions regardless. I prefer them go to a clinic where the procedure can be done safely instead of traveling out of country or done on the black market.
You really care if a person murdering a fetus has a safe procedure ?
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:36 am to TailbackU
Why is political correctness important to you ?
The few people I know that practice it are phony as hell.
I like bluntness.
The few people I know that practice it are phony as hell.
I like bluntness.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:36 am to ProfFrink
quote:
Abortion is murder
I agree. I also believe it should be legal. People will get abortions regardless. I prefer them go to a clinic where the procedure can be done safely instead of traveling out of country or done on the black market.
You just made this argument - you're going to murder a person anyway, so I prefer it be done legally and as safely as possible for the murderer.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:37 am to Gus007
Yea for sure
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:37 am to LSU2ALA
quote:
providing access to affordable healthcare to everyone
How much are you willing to pay for this? 10% of your income, 15%? Or is the Christian thing to do to confiscate other people's hard earned money?
And, when the rationing comes about like we see in other countries, will that be Christian as well?
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:45 am to David_DJS
quote:
You need to spend some time outside of the cushy confines of the US. You are uneducated, and you need your eyes opened.
To be clear, I have issues with the form of capitalism we now practice in the US (not competitive enough), but that's at the margin. You have to be retarded to not realize capitalism doesn't deliver best for everyone in the economy. Poor Americans don't live as well, and in some ways better, than the average European by accident.
Because we disagree on some points—and because you misunderstand my position—I am clearly uneducated.
My point was that images 1 and 4 could easily depict our current U.S. conditions. 2 could have been a supermarket during this pandemic (which has been exacerbated by an erratic, inept, and immoral GOP response spearheaded by Trump). And 3...I don't even know what that is...because it's a meme that's trying to reduce real discussion into black and white terms.
At the end of the day, "at the margin" is the part I'm trying to debate here. I think it's more than "at the margin." I think we have a form of capitalism that is tied to a two-party government that unabashedly protects the interests of the rich and corporations over everything else. You read that right: Republicans and Democrats. But our form of capitalism doesn't have to be that way. And it could be better. There are actual policies that exacerbate income inequality—and there are policies that reduce it. We have the data and examples from our own capitalist system. Also, you're ignoring that the U.S. is slipping in relation to some European countries with regard to quality of life metrics, including healthcare and life expectancy.
At the end of the day, some of y'all take this approach that when someone says, rationally, let's try to do better with x, you respond as if you're personally attacked...and maybe you are...maybe you're worried that a designed system that works for you but not others might suddenly stop working for you. It's like in your protest against change you acknowledge that our current system isn't actually fair or just.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:51 am to TigerAlum2006
quote:
It's honestly not funny at all that you can lump entire groups of people together based on occupation, dismiss them as categorically having moral failings, and use it to confirm for yourself that your success
You lying isn’t helping anything. I’ve had lots of contact with roofers and somehow that makes you mad and start lying. Too funny.
This post was edited on 8/12/20 at 11:56 am
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:52 am to TigerAlum2006
Or it could just be that you are an ideologically-possessed Leftist who disdains Individual Liberty, self-reliance and free markets and favors catastrophic State "solutions" because of the aforementioned ideological-possession.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:58 am to roadGator
quote:
You lying isn’t helping anything.
Where's the lie? You said roofers should have made better life choices...as if you were morally superior and better entitled to healthcare. That wasn't your argument? What was your argument, then?
You mistake my sadness for madness. It's sad to see someone turn away from Christ.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 11:58 am to 93and99
quote:
Why is political correctness important to you ?
It is not important to me to be "politicly correct" . I am merely pointing out what happened in the last election in my analysis.
Posted on 8/12/20 at 12:00 pm to TigerAlum2006
quote:
You said roofers should have made better life choices
Nope. Stop lying. It’s dumb.
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