Started By
Message

re: SECNAV is either too stupid or naive to be SECNAV

Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:23 pm to
Posted by 13SaintTiger
Isle of Capri
Member since Sep 2011
18315 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:23 pm to
quote:

said his going to the ship and addressing the men directly, as it was his decision, deserves kudos.


How does it deserve kudos? He had nothing to lose.
Posted by Ollieoxenfree99
Member since Aug 2018
7748 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:24 pm to
Aren't they on an active mission now? Why are you posting your whereabouts in social media?
Posted by Royal Tiger Fan
Cali
Member since Dec 2008
1162 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:25 pm to
quote:

He should have taken at least a few questions from E-4 and below, IMHO.


We have an admiral coming aboard today to do that
Posted by 13SaintTiger
Isle of Capri
Member since Sep 2011
18315 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:26 pm to
quote:

If he had either classified it, limited the distro or both he wouldn't have been fired.



He would’ve still been fired, or a career cut short. The tone of the memo was all that was needed. Limiting the distribution, maybe a slither if a chance to hold on to his career. But that’s different than holding him responsible -if he in fact didn’t- for leaking it to the press. The individual who did it is responsible for that.

quote:

I've commanded troops in the field. You have comparable bona fides?


Absolutely but not sure how that’s relevant at all unless you want to compare dick sizes.
Posted by Royal Tiger Fan
Cali
Member since Dec 2008
1162 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:26 pm to
quote:

Aren't they on an active mission now? Why are you posting your whereabouts in social media?


The ENTIRE world know we are in Guam. That is not a secret.

And it's called an deployment...not an active mission

Also a carrier isn't some stealth ship. Other countries are always aware of our whereabouts when we are deployed.
This post was edited on 4/6/20 at 6:29 pm
Posted by 13SaintTiger
Isle of Capri
Member since Sep 2011
18315 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:27 pm to
quote:

Why are you posting your whereabouts in social media?




Posted by 13SaintTiger
Isle of Capri
Member since Sep 2011
18315 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:28 pm to
quote:

The ENTIRE world know we are in Guam. That is not a secret.

Also a carrier isn't some stealth ship. Other countries are always aware of our whereabouts when we are deployed.



Crazy how many intelligence personnel we have in this thread. I’m still waiting on Ace to send me classification guidelines
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89527 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:43 pm to
quote:

I’m still waiting on Ace to send me classification guidelines


Information is classified Secret when its unauthorized disclosure would cause "serious damage" to national security.

Confidential is defined as information that would "damage" national security if publicly disclosed, again, without the proper authorization.


So, which one you got? Knowledge of one of the forward deployed CVNs of the United States being potentially combat ineffective because of a Wuhan outbreak? "Damage" or "serious damage"?
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89527 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:45 pm to
quote:

We have an admiral coming aboard today to do that




That's good. I assume the CAG or XO has assumed temporary command while they figure out what to do?
Posted by Ollieoxenfree99
Member since Aug 2018
7748 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:45 pm to
Huh. Just seemed very unprofessional.

Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89527 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:53 pm to
RTF - for what it's worth, Trump appears sympathetic to Crozier's plight and indicated he thought highly of him after speaking to people and reviewing his record.

Stay safe out there.
Posted by ABearsFanNMS
Formerly of tLandmass now in Texas
Member since Oct 2014
17461 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 7:02 pm to
quote:

He CC’d staff members, a common practice for transparency on issues that aren’t being remedied. If we are firing leaders for CCing staff members, not sure how many leaders the military will have left.


Is it true he CC’ed over 20 people and did not include his boss on the email?
Posted by Royal Tiger Fan
Cali
Member since Dec 2008
1162 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 7:03 pm to
quote:

hat's good. I assume the CAG or XO has assumed temporary command while they figure out what to do?


The XO had temporary command but the previous CO (before Crozier) came back to take command. He came on the plane with SECNAV
Posted by Royal Tiger Fan
Cali
Member since Dec 2008
1162 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 7:04 pm to
quote:

Is it true he CC’ed over 20 people and did not include his boss on the email?


His boss was in the to line...his boss received it
Posted by RockChalkTiger
A Little Bit South of Saskatoon
Member since May 2009
10335 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 7:06 pm to
Modly has clearly demonstrated his unfitness for command. He couldn’t hack it on active-duty and only weaseled his way into his current position by being a corporate whore. History will not look kindly on him, or any of the other enablers. He weakened our country today.
This post was edited on 4/6/20 at 10:16 pm
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89527 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 7:07 pm to
quote:

His boss was in the to line...his boss received it




Let me ask it as delicately as I can - would you have classified it and limited the distro to a very short list?
Posted by Royal Tiger Fan
Cali
Member since Dec 2008
1162 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 7:08 pm to
quote:

RTF - for what it's worth, Trump appears sympathetic to Crozier's plight and indicated he thought highly of him after speaking to people and reviewing his record.

Stay safe out there.


Thanks! same to you all back home.

I hadnt seen that report, thanks for sharing.

CAPT Crozier was a good leader, I've served on multiple carriers and had never seen one this well disciplined. His leadership resonated with the crew and they responded well to it.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65082 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 7:18 pm to
SECNAV just released a letter to the New York Times in which he responds to an op-ed written by the great grandson of Theodore Roosevelt. Here is the letter in full:

quote:

I have the utmost respect for Mr. Roosevelt and his family’s immense heritage of service to the nation. In the case of Captain Crozier, however, he is wrong. I suspect he has no other motive than to defend a courageous man, a man in the arena, but he simply does not have access to the relevant facts that led to the captain’s dismissal.

Capt. Crozier’s emotional letter on official Navy letterhead, addressed to no one in particular, was attached to an email which he distributed broadly to multiple addressees. It began “My Fellow Naval Aviators.” It included, and intentionally excluded, various people from his direct chain of command.

In the body of the email to which his letter was attached Captain Crozier wrote, “I fully realize that I bear responsibility for not demanding more decisive action the moment we pulled in (to Guam), but right now my only priority is the continued well-being of the crew and embarked staff.” While this may have been his self-assessment, I know that no one in his chain of command, up to and including me, who felt that Captain Crozier bore any responsibility for not demanding more decisive action at that time.

The facts are that Capt. Crozier’s direct chain of command, up to the Commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, had been communication with him well before (and after) he sent the email. So had my office. I asked my Chief of Staff to call him just after the ship pulled into Guam. He did so twice, and Capt. Crozier expressed no alarm to him at all. Bottom line, the public disclosure of Capt. Crozier’s letter had no impact on the flow of support to the ship. None. The crew of the ship was already being tested as rapidly as possible, isolated as necessary, and moved off the ship to quarantine. That was all happening to the greatest extent possible while still providing for the safety of the ship and all those still aboard.

Capt. Crozier did tell us that he was impatient with the pace of moving Sailors off the ship. We were ALL impatient with the pace. Securing 4,000 individual rooms suitable for isolation on Guam in the middle of a pandemic-forced shutdown is not a simple task. That being said, in less than a week, thanks in large part to the Government of Guam and the support of the rest of the Pacific Fleet, we have secured nearly 3,700. That plan was in action well prior to Capt. Crozier writing his letter, and it continues to be executed today.

What the public release of his letter did do, however, was unnecessarily create a public panic, when what was called for was calm. In my view, this is one of the main areas where Captain Crozier “bears responsibility.” It was his lapse of judgment in a moment of adversity that led to my loss of confidence in him.

I don’t doubt Captain Crozier’s love for his crew. But in my view, he did serious harm to his Sailors and the rest of our Navy when he created an atmosphere of crisis, while it was his primary duty to be a steady hand on a stormy sea. He did not send his dire warning on classified networks, or place any markings to suggest the information was classified, sensitive, or for official use only. While this may sound mundane to the average citizen, it is unacceptable behavior for the commanding officer of a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, and it should never be tolerated. As a civilian leader responsible to the American public for their safety and security, as well as that of every Sailor and Marine serving and standing the watch, I will not.

Sensitive information about the material condition of our biggest and most powerful warship made its way out into the public arena, in the hands of our adversaries. So did statements about political decisions outside the purview of the military. It was my determination that the Navy could not afford to wait to see if this lapse of judgement was just an aberration, or even the Captain’s new normal in the midst of a challenge. The stakes of our national security are simply much too high for that.

After all, Mr. Roosevelt, Captain Crozier was the Commanding Officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, and I am relatively certain your great grandfather would have demanded much more under pressure. I certainly do, and we all must.
Posted by Royal Tiger Fan
Cali
Member since Dec 2008
1162 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 7:22 pm to
quote:

Let me ask it as delicately as I can - would you have classified it and limited the distro to a very short list?


I would not have classified it - there was nothing in it that was classified.

However, i would have address the letter to the senior decision maker and place the CSG and fleet commander as VIAs (meaning sent the letter through them to the senior decision maker) in order to give them an opportunity to comment.

However, hindsight is 20/20. I think the CO was battling the essence of time which is why he wanted the information as to the severity of the issue in the hands of as many people as he believed could help. the email was sent to a bunch of flag officers and senior naval aviators to include other carrier COs
Posted by fatheadgator
Sanford, Fl
Member since Oct 2006
1354 posts
Posted on 4/6/20 at 7:26 pm to
quote:


I would not have classified it - there was nothing in it that was classified.


In the post above this- SECNAV disagrees with your opinion
first pageprev pagePage 8 of 9Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram